From: [fon g g] at [crsa.bu.edu] (Matt Riggsby) Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc Subject: Re: Religion in RPGs Date: 12 Jun 93 18:15:08 GMT In a previous message, Morgoth the Mad sez: >was to small to be a worry to the authorities.,,.. Only when enough >influencial >people became christians did it become a power.. Especially when Contantine >made it the official religeon... Peer pressure helped, but making the religion >the official religion went a along way, people wanted to show thier loyalty to >the Empire so they became christian, or they thought wow such a fad, lets >becoem christian..... >If the Emperor is christian, then why not me!! Of course soem fo the emperors >gave people a choice, or later a choice of life or death.. >Military power and technology went a long way to bring others to the fold.. Constantine (or, at least, Galerius and Licinius) only decriminalized Christianity and urged toleration. They more or less had to by that time, given the number of Christians in the empire. We really can't speak of Christianity as an official religion until the emperors gave Christians prefered tax status and, in the later half of the fourth century, started persecuting pagans. My point, I think, was that Christianity replaced paganism over pretty much the entire Mediterranean basin without any kind of official help. Official recognition was, essentially, a rubber stamp on an already completed transition. Arms and technology had little or nothing to do with it. I'd like to digress to express a disreputable opinion of mine. I suspect that one of the major reasons for the initial spread of Christianity across the ancient world was that, unlike most brands of European paganism, Christianity required that its god be worshiped exclusively. The average Roman's religious life was rather eclectic. He might have a favorite god, but would give offerings to whatever god seemed most expedient under the circumstances. Christianity, on the other hand, cut off other religions. I think it appropriate to point out that Christianity was far less successful in the Sassanian (pre-Muslim) Persian empire, where the worship of the emperor was likewise exclusive. Of course, we can't ignore other factors, such as the rampant religious experimentation of the later imperial period which gave Christianity fertile ground in which to take root, Greek philosophical works which made the eastern religion more accessible to a Roman audience, and the rather comforting Christian afterworld. >[mention of Anglo-Saxon conversions deleted] Also conversions in the east throughout Late Antiquity and the Medieval period. Germanic barbarians heading east, Slavs, Russians, etc. When ascribing the spread of Christianity to military power, I think it's important to point out who is getting converted and where. The large conversions mentioned above (Anglo-Saxons, Slavs, etc.) were, so far as I can tell, largely political in nature. Rulers and rulers' families converted to obtain valuable alliances with the Byzantine empire and, later, other powerful Christian nations (e.g.: the upstart Charlemagne's pseudo- empire). While the alliances were at least partially to obtain military support, advantages in trade and chances to legitimate the local ruler's own power were equally important. What's missing from all of this is bands of technologically superior troops wandering into villages and beating up everybody who won't convert, which is what the "military power and [superior] technology" tends to suggest. By the time the Christians have enough military power in a region to make conversion by force an option, the area has probably been pretty much Christianized anyway. >Charlemagne c.600.. Crowned Christmas day, 800 AD. I assume the 6 is a typo. Despite attacks on pagans at home, he carried on a rather courteous correspondance with my favorite caliph Haroun al-Raschid. >Justinian c.400/500 Ruled 518-527. >[suggestion to move this to where we can do some real damage deleted] I dunno. The thought occurs to me that this kind of historical debate can be useful for people building their own campaign histories by giving them either source material to steal verbatim or just a more complex understanding of how various historical situations resolved themselves. Opinions? Is anyone but me and the guy in Alaska paying attention to Ecclesiastical History-Fest '93? >Morgoth the Mad lives in Rogue AIs everywhere! Some years ago, I ran a berserker named Morgoth the Mad. Coincidence? Or sign from Allah? You be the judge. ObFRP: Just got GURPS Arabian Nights. Loved it. Looks like SJG has finally been forced to admit to fantasy as an operative principle in a fantasy game. DISCLAIMER: Don't take my word for it. Check out Ostrogorsky, Obolensky, and Vasiliev.