From: [m w lucas] at [vela.acs.oakland.edu] (Michael W. Lucas) Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc Subject: Re: TSR acquires DANGEROUS JOUNREYS Date: 8 Apr 1994 12:17:42 GMT The following is a message I received from GDW about one of my previous postings. As my system is being difficult about letting me copy an email message to news, I'm retyping this. Any typos are mine. transcription begins here -- Date: 94-03-25 From: Frank Chadwick M. Lucas Says: >I spoke with one of the GDW staff members for a while last >night, musing over the whole DJ situations...some of the >things he told me (apart from the impossibility of getting >a good pizza near GDW) include: I think that I ought to say something about Michael Lucas's internet posting, just because so much of it strikes me as being so contrary to the facts as I know them. I don't know that I've ever met Michael (and if I have and have forgotten, my apologies), so I can't say why he would say some of these things about current and former GDW staff members and their opinions. All I can say is that, to the best of my knoweledge, they are way off the mark. >Everybody there hated the game Everybody here did not hate DJ. In fact, I can't think of anyone who did. There certainly were, and are, members of the staff who felt that our efforts might more profitably have been invested in a system which we owned completely, such as Traveller, but that is something entirely different from "hating" it. If there are few staff members who play DJ, it is also worth mentioning that there are few staff members who play any fantasy games at all. It simply isn't our normal cup of tea, and so if there is a fault to be identified here I suspect that it was more with us than with the game. >Their contract with Gygax said that he had to approve >everything they published (down to individual illustrations). >They weren't allowed to touch his writing, and so on. Let me talk a little about the degree of control Gary exercised over the game. It is patently not true that we were not allowed to "touch his writing." We edited, to a greater or lesser degree, everything that we published. Did our contract (with Trigee, not Gary Gygax, by the way) give them total right of approval over everything we published, down to individual illustrations? Of course it did! It was their property. Does anyone reading this think that any game company publishing a game under license with any one else has a contract materially different than this? Do you think Marvel, for example, licenses TSR to do a superhero RPG and then says "print anything you feel like, and use our trademarks in good health"? If so, you know very little about how these things work. Trademark and copyright holders get to approve everything because what we licensees publish affects, sometimes dramatically, the value of their property. If we publish a bunch of garbage art in the paper game, will it affect the licensor's ability to negotiate a license with, for example, a computer software house? You bet! Having said that, how easy was Gary (who Trigee had do the actual approval work) to work with? Very easy, very flexible, very accomodating. There's nothing in any agreement that says I have to say this, by the way. The truth is that I've been in the business going on 21 years, I've worked with many of the creative people around. Gary was both the easiest and most professional of any outside designer I've had the pleasure to work with. We suggested many rules changes, and Gary was always a patient and open- minded listener. While he was very protective of the "feel" of the game (as he had every right to be), he was always anxious for any way of improving or polishing the product. >I know of two GDW staffers that went to TSR to avoid DJ. This is, to the best of my knowledge and certain belief, absolutely false. There have been only two people who have left GDW and gone to TSR since we published DJ: Lester Smith and Rob Lazaretti. Both of them received lucrative and attractive offers from TSR. In Rob's case, the offer was very attractive, much more than we could afford to pay him (but by no means more than he is worth). Lester and I spoke at length several times about his move from GDW to TSR. I believe that he spoke frankly and openly with me about his reasons, both professional and personal, for wanting to make a move. I don't recall that wanting to escape DJ was one of them. More recently, Lester was called upon to testify under oath during the deposition phase of the litigation between TSR and us and he was asked by TSR's attorneys to enumerate the reasons why he had left GDW and moved to TSR. He went over some of the same things that he discussed with me, but made no mention, to my recollection, of any desire to avoid or escape DJ. Maybe Lester was hiding the truth from me when we spoke originally. Maybe je was lying under oath during his deposition. Having known Lester for many years, however, I don't think so. Maybe Michael Lucas knows Lester better than I do, but I would be very surprised if that were the case. In the case of Rob, I again don't believe that he left to "avoid" DJ. Rob was extremely happy working here (as we were happy to have him), and it was only the fact that TSR made him an offer that gave him a degree of financial independence which we couldn't offer him that prompted him to leave. (Again, this is based on conversations which Rob and I had prior to his leaving, and I believe that Rob was sincere in everything he said in those talks.) Rob did some really great work on DJ when he was here, particularly in the area of maps. The color maps in Epic of Aerth are unlike anything we ever did before, and are uniquely well-suited to that game. I don't think that anyone can look at them and believe that they are anything but labors of love. When Rob left for TSR he was just getting started on the conceptual work for Ascalon, and both he and I were very excited about the really original graphic presentation he had come up with for the product. I don't think that "avoiding" DJ had a thing to do with his decision. Finally, the statement "The accountants will probably axe it, but you never know..." is really bizarrd. Is he really talking about the same TSR I know? I am no expert on the inner workings of TSR, but it has never been my impression that it is run by "the accountants," and that is not a slam at TSR by any means. TSR is run by Lorraine Williams, not some faceless gaggle of suits. Why do people feel the need to be instant experts on things like this? Why do they feel like they have to have an opinion on everything that happens, and broadcast it, even if they know next to nothing about the event? I havea theory about this. I think it comes from watching too much television news. -- Frank Chadwick. From: Brad K. McDevitt Re: The posting concerning commentary about DJ. I was the GDW staff member who spoke with Lucas. I did NOT say that "everybody there hates the game," but I did admit that it was not my favorite game by GDW, being much more into _Dark Conspiracy_ and _Traveller._ However, I should like to add that I did like certain parts of DJ, esp. the simplicity of its percentile system. (And Sczudlo's and Nunis's art for it.) I was VERY much looking forward to working on _Unhallowed_ the modern horror game for the DJ line. I'm not much of a fantasy fan... just call me morbid. 8) B.K.M. From: Loren K. Wiseman RE: The Above I'd just like to add that I edited Gary's prose several times (sometimes rather severely), and cannot recall him ever rejecting any change I wanted to make. Also I am a close friend of Lester Smith, and he discussed his reasons for leaving GDW in depth with me before he left. I do not remember DJ coming up in the conversation. Anybody who has a question about the settlement or anything else concerning GDW, and is interested in the truth (not gossip) shoud Email me at [G D W SUPPORT] at [GENIE.GEIS.COM.] Loren K. Wiseman. --end transcription If you have any more questions, please mail them. Later, -- Michael Lucas [m w lucas] at [vela.acs.oakland.edu] Hot Tub Dragon Games "Reality? Yeah, right."