From: "Mark Brown (Draco)" <[brow n m] at [greebo.uvo.dec.com]> Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd,rec.games.frp.misc Subject: Origins the summary - What people answered with. Date: 2 Jun 1995 18:06:38 GMT What can I say, but I'm impressed, the creation of roleplaying produced in 4 days, well here is the compilation. edited to just show what happened. Thanks go to everyone for answering my question, perhaps a summary of this could be put into the next FAQ? Mark So the question, by me: What I would like to do is basically start a discussion on this newsgroup about this subject. How did roleplaying start? who was the original inventor (was it Gary Gygax)? What did TSR do before D&D (if anything)? If possible dates would be useful (I don't expect accuracy, just general years or months), also perhaps continuing this onto the development of the roleplaying industry, from basic D&D to AD&D even perhaps branching out into other roleplaying games. *** The history of Roleplaying: **** First we had the Wargaming - **** From: [w--in--r] at [aol.com] (WinningerR) "Roleplaying" has antecedents that date back as far as anyone can remember -- imaginary children's games, "murder mystery" clubs, improvisational theater, etc. "Pencil, paper, and dice" roleplaying (ie. DUNGEONS AND DRAGONS and its ilk) has its earliest antecedents in the Play By Mail games of the late 1960s. From: [t--lc--i] at [mail2.sas.upenn.edu] (Thomas M Polcari) From what I have been able to find out ... before D&D there was only wargaming. Usually it was typical guns & soldiers type, but then people (or should I say men, I've not found a reference to women in my research) began to do medieval type wargaming. From: [b j m 10] at [cornell.edu] (Bryan Maloney) Gary Gygax and Dave Arneson were wargamers who got into medieval battles. Note that when I say "wargamers", I am referring to TABLETOP games that use lead miniatures, NOT "live-action" in ANY way. **** Then we had the wargaming fantasy supplements - **** From: [w--in--r] at [aol.com] (WinningerR) As for the specific origins of D&D, the game evolved from a fantasy supplement to CHAINMAIL, a set of medieval miniatures combat rules published by TSR. Much of D&D's terminology was derived directly from Chainmail (hit points, Armor Class, Level, saving throw, etc). From: [t--lc--i] at [mail2.sas.upenn.edu] (Thomas M Polcari) Eventually, a group started to add fantasy elements like a Druid priest, magic spells and dragons to the wargaming From: [b j m 10] at [cornell.edu] (Bryan Maloney) So, they put together a set of rules called "Chainmail" for medieval miniature armies. For the time, the rules weren't laughable. The company that published Chainmail was called Guidon Games, and was an unlimited liability partnership (not incorporated). From: [l r mead] at [whale.st.usm.edu] (Lawrence R. Mead) TSR originally stood for Tactical Studies Rules, a small company run by E. Gary Gygax, Dave Arneson and I believe one other person. Pre Dungeons and dragons, the same gaming group ran a battle simulation game called "Chainmail" (this was in the very early 70's), which used miniature figures and had rules for individual as well as group or army combat. **** Then we had the birth of D&D **** From: [w--in--r] at [aol.com] (WinningerR) By most accounts, the first recognizable D&D games were actually run by Dave Arneson, who used the Chainnail fantasy supplement to run a new type of scenario in which the players would explore underground labyrinths of his own creation. From: [b j m 10] at [cornell.edu] (Bryan Maloney) Anyway, Gygax, Arneson, and their friends injected more fantasy into their wargames, including units for "wizards" and "heroes". These were the first "adventurers". Gygax was happy to keep them as ultra-powerful military units, but Arneson took these concepts and combined them with another concept that had been floating around--the play by mail "campaign", in which players took on the parts of rulers who not only sent armies at each other, but intrigued, engaged in diplomacy, etc. So, the wizard and the hero were removed from the battlefield and set at performing mythic tasks on their own. **** Then Finally we had D&D **** From: [b j m 10] at [cornell.edu] (Bryan Maloney) From there, more refinements were added, like character advancement, etc. Eventually, you got Dungeons and Dragons. Gygax attempted to sell the game to all the game companies, including Avalon Hill. He was turned down by all. They thought the game was too open-ended. "How do you win?" "Stupid." and similar were many of the responses he got. So, Tactical Studies Rules was formed to market this game. The original game was marketed as a "fantasy wargame to be played with paper and pencil". Furthermore, it recommended that the owner get hold of a copy of Chainmail and a copy of the Avalon Hill Game "Outdoor Survival". Combat was just the "fantasy supplement" for "Chainmail". This eventually evolved into the TSR games known today. From: [t--lc--i] at [mail2.sas.upenn.edu] (Thomas M Polcari) Eventually Gygax printed the rules which were slow to sell at first but then started to sell more quickly; TSR is the result. From: [l r mead] at [whale.st.usm.edu] (Lawrence R. Mead) Eventually, magic was added and the more complicated system of combat was simplified to something like existed in original DnD (combat tables and saving throw tables, circa 1973) which was published in '73, if memory serves: "Men and Magic, Monsters and Treasure, Wilderness and Dungeon Adventures" were the three original booklets in a white box. TSR introduced the unique ideas of spells in military combat situations; but the *big* innovation was the introduction of "experience points and levels of proficiency" in combat and spell use. Dnd thus, allowed *individual* characters to grow in strength, and thus be around long enough to take on real "character": in short, role playing. These new ideas were so good and so versatile that within just one or two years, the game became very popular. From: [m--c--r] at [shakala.com] (Barbara Haddad) Actually, the original pamphlets were printed in late '72. They appeared on the West Coast for the first time at the '73 Equicon [Easter '73] and they began to show up in hobby shops in summer '73. (I believe 'Chainmail' saw print in late '71.) **** Then we had the expansions **** From: [l r mead] at [whale.st.usm.edu] (Lawrence R. Mead) Additional small booklets were then put out: "Greyhawk (the first use of other than 6-sided dice! and introducing the Paladin), Deities and Demigods, Eldritch Wizardry and Blackmoor (introducing the Druid and Monk subclasses of cleric). Advanced DnD was written in the late 70's (78?) by Gygax exclusively as a *uniform* Dnd system to be sufficiently standardized for tournament use. I do not think I ever knew why or how Dave Arneson was excluding from the latter, but he deserves credit as co-inventor of Dnd; his name was on each of the three original rules booklets. From: [m--c--r] at [shakala.com] (Barbara Haddad) AD&D PH = 1978; AD&D DMG 1979 **** And some gneral notes **** From: [w--in--r] at [aol.com] (WinningerR) Gygax is known as the father of D&D because he 1) was the guy who wrote everything down, and 2) actually developed and refined the Chainmail fantasy supplement into the first set of "Dungeons and Dragons" rules. At the same time D&D was being developed (roughly 1972-1975), similar forms of roleplaying were reportedly being conducted by MAR Barker (who created Tekumel, the world upon which Empire of the Petal Throne is based). -- My views do not reflect those of my employers, nor anybody elses views, except that little green dragon sitting on my shoulder.