From: [t--a--r] at [aol.com] (Tekmancer) Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc Subject: History of the Flames Date: 6 Aug 1994 20:26:01 -0400 (Long post) For those who don't know me I am Travis Williams. I used to be the PR Dude at WW. I have since left the company to pursue other things. I make video games now. My views are my own and not WWs. I think that perhaps in order to fairly look at this problem we have to go back and examine why WW let SJG do GURPS conversions. I will also try to shed some light on pasts entanglements. As you might have noticed the WW posse and the SJG camp are more often than not two diffrent animals. WW was doing fine w/o SJG dollars, but like any company you are always trying to get more of the market. SJG approached WW about doing a GURPS version of the World of Darkness games. At the surface it sounds good. SJG gets to do versions of WW games. However, they have a limit on the amount of supplements they are allowed to make. GURPS people could see the good parts of the WW world and if they were hooked then they would have to come to WW for the next fix. Sounds good but there are problems. 1. When you create something from nothing you have a harder time at it. Your next versions of the same item will be theoretically better, and easier. (Windows 4.0 is easier to make cause you can use OS2 as a model.) 2. Will the WW people see the GURPS version and fall in love? (Not if you liked what WW was famous for. Story and support) Then again, you never know. The bulk of the creative staff was against it. The higher ups thought it was a good deal. Steve Weick was not prez of White Wolf at this time. The deal was signed and many groans echoed in the WW halls. Nevertheless WW tried to make the best of it and Andrew (The Vampire line developer) began to get text from SJG. Problems in the manual were argued over... Now lets talk about this for a sec.. No matter how much of a dick WW is SJG is holding WW properties. When you are handling other persons property the burden is on you to provide acceptable material. Such is the danger of licensing. The fact that WW could be dicks was the chance SJG took when it signed those papers. The first sour note in the SJG WW deal was Vampire. WW is known for getting some of the best artists the comic and gaming industry have to offer. When WW contracts out for art it pays the artist rights to use the art in one book. Afterwards, the artist can do whatever it wants to with the art. Obviously, the first print rights are the most expensive. SJG called every WW artist it could and approached them for the second print rights to their art. If you were an artist you would more than likely say yes. Your work is already done all you have to do is say yes. Second print rights are WAY cheap. 10 - 50 % original price. So in effect SJG would only have to slap thier rules in a chapter, wrap WW text around it, throw in the GREAT WW art they got for cheap and make a lot of money. That's not a diffrent version. Thats just a plagirism. So WW said make it more your own while keeping our flavor. Then the SHIT hit the fan. All WW was saying is just make us belive that you did more than slap your rules around our properties. Back to the art deal: Quite a few WW favorites were asked for the second print rights to their art and thats all. Some of them neither got paid or sent contracts. Nevertheless, their art appeared in GURPS Vampire. How do you think life was for the WW art director with big name artists calling him up yelling cause their art is being printed w/o their permission? That was murder. So things were shaky. This is why GURPS Werewolf had totally new art. Steve had to deal mostly with Lloyd Blankenship over the GURPS versions. Lloyd would call WW and put them in a logistical mess. Serveral days were shot due to the fact that he would attempt to get clearance on matters through the wrong channels at WW. Days would be spent on the phone with Lloyd going point for point on what needed to be changed. This is why Steve required himself to be the only contact within WW for these matters. These conversations became VERY confrontational, due to the fact that Lloyd thought SJG had the upper hand. This is not the case when you are using other companies properties. In short this deal became costly mentally. Is this something WW must deal with since it did sell the properties to SJG. YES. SJG has a right to the answers they require to make a good product. From my viewpoint when I was a WW employee SJG seemed to almost powertrip over the contract. So in a nutshell folks EVERYONE is at fault here. Things should have been dealt with more maturely than they have. As an owner of a business SJ should have carried this out more professionally. I think posting that over the net was very unprofessional. WW should have given him the forum to do this another way. But as I have said before WW holds the cards because it is thier bread and butter that is being made over by SJG and they have a right to have it appear as they damn well please. As for Stephan's character I will have to agree with Ray. Although I am not BEST buds with my former boss, I have never had any reason to think that he would ever do the things he is reported to have done. I have had limited contact with SJ, but the times that I have spoken to him he has been nothing but pleasant as well. I hope I helped. I did not post this to get into some play by play with other people out there. All I wanted to do was let people know that there is another side to this story. -Travis Williams PS. Sheesh considering how small the RPG industry is..... CAN'T WE ALL JUST GET ALONG?