Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 02:29:37 -0600
To: [iowanor m l] at [commonlink.com]
From: "Carl E. Olsen" <[c--l] at [mail.commonlink.com]>
Subject: KCNZ 1250 AM (PART 4)
December 9, 1996
Ron Corbett and Allen Helmers on
KCNZ 1250 AM
721 Shirley Street
Cedar Falls, IA 50613
319-277-1918
PART 4
COLOFF: Welcome back to the program. Local talk radio on KCNZ.
Talking about the medicinal uses of marijuana. Should it be legalized in
Iowa? It has been in Arizona and California. Is this sweeping the nation?
Is it going to be everywhere soon? Well, not in Iowa probably. It sounds
like it won't come up this year. We've got a caller on the phone. Allen in
on line two, but first off we want to give the other Allen, Allen Helmers,
our guest here in the studio, a chance to answer the question. A caller
called in and wanted to know if he would support legalization of crack
cocaine if it helped make someone feel better. Or, how about heroin? What
if that helped someone feel better?
HELMERS: Cocaine is already available through your doctor. Crack
cocaine, there's really no medical use for it, according to any literature
that I've ever read. Yes, I would support heroin, which I do believe is
available through doctors in some states, it was on the Arizona referendum,
for chronically ill people, under a doctor's supervision. I don't think
heroin belongs on the street, as well as any other drug. It's too easily
abused.
COLOFF: Uh hum. And, Ron, any comment on that? What if we passed
this, and then we have the next group that want to legalize something else?
CORBETT: Well, that's the point I've been trying to make, that all the
safeguards that the legislature, whoever, other legislators around the
country can put in, this issue it just seems to me, at least the way I
understand it, and what I've been able to read about it, that it's way open
to abuse and misuse through the process, with today anything being
classified as a medical use. I mean, so for you to start saying that, well,
only people that have chemotherapy are allowed to use it. Well, what
happens if someone develops carpal tunnel and they have some extreme pain in
their wrist? And then some person that has it says, well, these drugs
aren't working for me, so I want to use marijuana. And so, I mean, where do
you draw the line on an issue like this?
COLOFF: Uh hum.
CORBETT: And, I don't know where you draw the line. So, rather than
trying to guess where to draw the line, we've elected not to authorize this
in Iowa. Let some of the other states, through their referendum process, it
seems to be the only way they can get it passed, let them try it. And, in
three years from now, we'll have an understanding. And, in three years from
now we'll have some results. Was it abused, wasn't it abused? All these
questions that I've been asking and we've been bouncing back and forth,
maybe we'll have some more information. So let's hold off for three or four
years and see how it works in some other states.
HELMERS: Do you think that doctors are over-prescribing morphine and
other pain killers for people with carpal tunnel now?
CORBETT: Oh, I don't know. I don't know.
HELMERS: Well, there's the point. I mean, if the doctor is prescribing
the marijuana, that's the whole point. You must have missed 60 Minutes last
night. It started out with a great article about how America is killing its
sick people because they're afraid to prescribe pain medication. It was a
terrific piece there. I wish you would have seen it.
CORBETT: Yeah, I did miss it.
COLOFF: Okay, we've got another call on the line here, and if you want
to get in on the discussion, 277-1918 or 1-800-913-9479. And, Allen from
Waterloo, thank you for holding Allen. What's your comment here on the air?
ALLEN: Well, I just wanted to comment on the idea of when will our
legislators understand that prohibition does not work, it never has worked,
and never will work? These people are going against historical and natural
law, and until they come around to this understanding, that it is honest
education that works to help people out, prohibition will not work. Since
they put a profit into it, drugs will always be out there. The only way to
really get a handle on it is to go ahead and let the people do what they
want to do, but honestly education them about it.
COLOFF: Mr. Corbett, do you think this is prohibition, or just...
CORBETT: Well, what you're advocating is, what the caller is advocating
is legalization of all drugs then. Correct?
COLOFF: Caller, are you there?
ALLEN: I think they should legalize marijuana. I do believe that they
should go ahead and decriminalize everything else. Yes, honest education is
the only way to do it.
HELMERS: Because it doesn't make sense locking a person with three
ounces of marijuana up for five years, and locking a person who raped a five
year old kid up for two. I don't see what's going on. You guys got to
start thinking about the laws you're writing.
CORBETT: Well, we do. And...
HELMERS: Well, that's what's going on.
CORBETT: And you know there's a lot of problems out there with
substance abuse. Allen, you've already pointed that out. You got hit by a
drunk driver.
HELMERS: And you gave her seven days in jail.
CORBETT: People will abuse alcohol. They will abuse other substances.
And, they will abuse the right to use marijuana for medical purposes. So, I
think we've proven it. They'll be abuses in it. Now, how do you handle the
abuses?
HELMERS: Well, people abuse food. People abuse anything there is that
can be abused. How do we stop all the abuse?
COLOFF: Allen, are you still on the phone Allen?
ALLEN: Yes.
COLOFF: Okay, do you think that, you mentioned legalizing marijuana for
all purposes, is that correct?
ALLEN: Yes.
COLFOFF: Do you think that if it was legalized for medicinal purposes
you'd have a greater case to make to have it legalized for all?
ALLEN: I think it would probably help out, yes. I mean, obviously,
this drug war that we've got now doesn't work, hasn't, and it won't. So,
let's start thinking of some more positive approaches, instead of this
negative idea of prohibition.
COLOFF: So, this could be the first step in your goal to have it
legalized for everyone?
ALLEN: Yeah.
COLOFF: Okay.
ALLEN: I mean, well, you also have to look at the history of things.
Like, marijuana basically didn't exist until in the 1930s. The historical
name is hemp.
COLOFF: Uh hum.
ALLEN: And, there's two forms of hemp. There's an industrial hemp, and
there's a medicinal hemp.
HELMERS: Cannabis.
ALLEN: And when they changed the name in the Congress, they changed the
name to marijuana and made it all illegal.
COLOFF: Sure.
ALLEN: What they've done is held back the farmers from growing the
industrial form of hemp also. The Iowa Farm Bureau has just passed a
resolution calling for studies and research into it for growing it here in
Iowa.
COLOFF: Okay, Allen, thanks for the call. Appreciate it.
ALLEN: Thank you.
COLOFF: Okay, Mr. Helmers. We heard from the caller that this could be
the first step to legalizing marijuana for everyone, and it sounds like he
was talking about letting farmers grow hemp for whatever purpose. Now one
of Mr. Corbett's concerns was that this was kind of the first step to an
explosion here, and drug paraphernalia, drug use. Do you agree with that?
HELMERS: Ah, no I don't. I think that the drug use will end up going
down over it.
COLOFF: It will go down?
HELMERS: I do. I really believe so. And, that's been the way it has
gone in the Netherlands and other European countries who are legalizing.
There's a couple more, Belgium legalized just a while back. It doesn't pay
to put non-violent, peaceful people in prison. Most enlightened societies
are aware of that. And I'd like to get back on one point that Mr. Corbett
made earlier. The people who backed these resolutions in California and
Arizona, the political people, a few of them were Reagan's ex-secretary of
state George Schultz, former U.S. Senators Barry Goldwater, Allen Cranston,
and Dennis DeConcini, and Nobel economist Milton Friedman, and conservative
William Buckley. The people who bank rolled it, like George Soros, one of
America's richest men, contributed $550,000. Peter Lewis, Cleveland
Insurance tycoon, gave a half a million. John Sperling, president of
Phoenix, chipped in, as did Lawrence Rockefeller, Nelson's brother. Don't
tell me that's a line up of busy minded pot-head hippies. I mean, the
problem is you're trying to turn it into a Cheech and Chong show.
CORBETT: No, that's not...
HELMERS: There's a medical need, and people are being punished in this
country. Is the next step for me to call Dr. Kevorkian? Or, are we going
to do like the Nazis did and load sick people in the back of trucks and run
the exhaust up into them, so when you get them to the hospital you don't got
nothin' to do but bury 'em?
COLOFF: Okay, Mr. Helmers...
CORBETT: Well, first of all, I never said anything about Cheech and
Chong or how I've tried to frame this issue. Now, don't think that I'm
trying to make this into a Cheech and Chong show. I haven't said anything
about that. I've been pretty open with saying there's been studies on both
sides that have showed, yes, there is some medicinal value, and other
studies that have said no. I haven't tried to make this a partisan issue.
I haven't been in any way...
HELMERS: I didn't say you did. That's the tones I've been getting out
of the media.
CORBETT: Out of the what? Out of the media?
HELMERS: Yeah.
CORBETT: Well,...
HELMERS: From other politicians.
CORBETT: Well, you pointed out, that there's, I didn't say that this
was a partisan issue. I know there's Republicans that want to use it, want
to legalize this. And there's Democrats that do, and there's some on the
other side that don't. President Clinton doesn't think it should be done.
His chief drug czar, Barry McCaffrey, doesn't think it should be done. Yes,
former Senator DeConcini, he thought it should be. Yeah, there's honest
people can have honest disagreements. And, I haven't criticized anyone for
wanting to push this at all. What I've said is, where do you draw the line
on this slippery slope? How do you prevent the fraud?
HELMERS: Let's make it...
CORBETT: In the system?
HELMERS: Put it, reschedule it on the same level with cocaine,
morphine, or any of your other Schedule II drugs.
COLOFF: Okay, we're going to take a call here. We've had Andy waiting
on line one for quite a while now. 277-1918 or 1-800-913-9479. Andy from
Waterloo, you're on the air. How do you feel about this issue?
ANDY: Well, I agree with that first caller. I can't understand why
this man keeps talking about prohibiting it. If you're going to, if these
people really need marijuana, and physicians say they do, then they should
be able to have it. But, hey, let's quit fooling around, that's not
prohibiting it.
COLOFF: But, Andy, what about if you were laying in bed and you said
that you needed it, and how can I prove that you don't? What would happen
if that happened?
ANDY: Well, I have a doctor. And, if he says I need it, then fine.
COLOFF: But, don't you think people lie to their doctors once in a while?
ANDY: That's right.
COLOFF: Well, how do we prevent that?
ANDY: You don't prevent liars. I mean, look at the politicians we got
here today.
COLOFF: (laughter) Well, that's a cheap shot, Andy.
CORBETT: What have I lied on?
ANDY: You haven't lied to me, sir.
COLOFF: Mr. Corbett, go ahead.
CORBETT: You said, look at the politicians. What have I lied to you
this morning?
ANDY: You haven't lied, sir, but Senator Harkin did a lot of it.
CORBETT: Okay.
COLOFF: Well, we're getting a little off the topic now.
ANDY: Yeah. But my feeling is this, that if you, this is the first
caller said, that if the doctors say you need it, you need it. And just
because people lie to the doctors, that doesn't mean that my statement is
wrong. If the doctors say you need it, and if I need marijuana, fine, if
the doctor says so. That's the only thing. And, talking about profit, my
goodness, look at what the dopers are making today. The prostitutes, the
pushers, out on the streets. They're making big profits. They're robbing
out homes in order to get that dope money.
COLOFF: Andy, I appreciate your call. Thanks for chiming in.
ANDY: Okay.
COLOFF: Okay, Andy from Waterloo. And we are going to be back, we've
got to take a break here for another CNBC business report, and have more
from Ron Corbett, Republican from Cedar Rapids is the House Speaker, and
from Allen Helmers who's an advocate for the medicinal use of marijuana.
More of the program on local talk radio coming up here on KCNZ. It's now
ten minutes before the hour of ten o'clock.
PART 5
(part of the tape is missing)
RANDY: The chemotherapy and finally died of cancer. During the last
several years, he wanted to address the nausea problems of chemotherapy with
the use of marijuana. And there were people who offered him marijuana, but
he would not take it, because he only wanted to do it with the support of a
physician. He went to different physicians, and almost every one of them
said that it would help, and in many cases would help better than the drugs
he was being given. But, they said, I can't help you. You realize what
would happen to me if I did. Through absolute fear of our lawmakers the
physicians were not doing their job with their patient, even though they
knew it was the best road. And, that's what we're doing by making this
thing a criminal situation. It should be taken out of the class I category
that it's in, and put in just like any other prescribed medication.
COLOFF: Okay, Randy, thanks for the call.
RANDY: Thank you.
COLOFF: Mr. Corbett? Any response?
CORBETT: Well, I think the gentleman has a good point. And, if you
could just narrow it down to that aspect of it, there'd be, you'd think it
was easy to do. But, just as there's people that will abuse drugs, you can
have physicians. I mean, it isn't going to be any matter of time where
everybody's going to know the physician that's going to approve it for
whatever reason, and to get the signature. I mean, that word will be on the
street in no time. An, so, it's extremely hard to police, and it's hard to
prevent the abuses from it. So, we have it in two states. Let's find out
how it works in those two states. Now, they've legalized it. So, we're
going to have some data and information over the next three or four years on
this subject. This certainly isn't going to be the last time that this
issue is going to be debated. It's going to be debated hotly around the
country more and more as more and more referendums get on ballots, and, so,
let's see, let's let other states, let the other states experiment with it
at this point in time.
COLOFF: And if it works there, would you be willing to go along with it
in the future?
CORBETT: Well, the more information you have, I mean, I've never been a
person that's believed that someone should be locked in stone for whatever
reason on their opinion. If you have more and more information and data
that can provide you, that's provided to you, it helps you in your decision
making process. Why not? I would be foolish to ever say that, I mean, if
my questions and concerns are answered, and we don't find out in Arizona and
in California that marijuana use goes up among fourteen and fifteen year
olds, and there aren't some of the problems that I say possibly could arise.
It's not just me, but the national drug czar and other people, President
Clinton, say can develop from this. We'll know in a couple of years.
COLOFF: Okay, and we're going to go back to the phones, 277-1918 or
1-800-913-9479, and, Thomas, you're on KCNZ. Your comments.
THOMAS: Yeah. My question is for the Speaker. Why won't he put it to
a vote?
COLOFF: Mr. Corbett? I guess, it came up. Why not?
CORBETT: Well, there's several things. I'll just let you know the
legislative process. We're only there for a few months. And, there's two
thousand different bills that are introduced, and there's no way you could
bring every bill on up into committee and up on the floor. You'd be there
all year long. And so we're part time, so...
THOMAS: Well, it seems pretty simple to me.
CORBETT: So you pick and choose the issues that you're going to bring
forward. I don't think there's enough votes for it. So, why go through
three, four, five, six days of debate on an issue like this and then have it
be defeated?
HELMERS: Well, there's a lot of us voters who would like to know where
you stand on it, for next election.
CORBETT: Well, you know, (laughter), you know where I stand.
HELMERS: Would you like some reliable information? There's a couple
pages of full of studies that have been done which are very easily obtained.
I will make sure you get a list of those studies that were done by
scientific people. The information, the literature is out there.
CORBETT: I think most of the people that run for public office will let
you know where they stand on this. You just said locally, a local senator
there supports it. There's a questionnaire that we get on every group and
organization on all their different issues. I remember getting one on this
specific issue. I checked the no box and sent that back, so I'm certainly
not hiding my position, so...
HELMERS: Elaine Szymoniak introduced a bill for this last year.
CORBETT: Pardon?
HELMERS: Elaine Szymoniak had a bill that she introduced on this issue.
CORBETT: Well, I understand. And she's a senator again, and maybe
she'll introduce that legislation again.
HELMERS: Okay.
CORBETT: I'm not saying that all one hundred representatives and fifty
senators don't oppose this or support it. There's a difference of opinion.
That's the democracy and the process, but there aren't the votes right now
to pass it in the house.
COLOFF: Ron, last year when that bill came up, did it come up for
discussion last year, or not? Do you remember what happened to that bill
that she introduced?
CORBETT: It got assigned to committee. It didn't even come out of
committee. There wasn't any public hearings on it, or anything. It just,
whoever was the floor manager of the bill didn't do anything with it.
COLOFF: Okay. We're running out of time here, and, Mr. Corbett, I need
a last comment from you.
CORBETT: Well, I think we've had some good discussions, and this we're
going to continue to have, not just on talk shows, but on editorial pages
and continue discussion and education about these issues. And, I'm not
going to act like I know all the answers. I'll continue to read the stuff
that Mr. Helmers and other people send me, and I hope that they would also
consider the other side. And this is going to be something that we'll be
discussing for quite some time.
COLOFF: Okay. Mr. Helmers, about thirty seconds to wrap it up.
HELMERS: Okay. Well, I think we have to stop locking up chronically
ill people in the name of the drug war. The cost of this war that the
politicians have going on has risen $15.1 billion in Clinton's 1997 budget.
It's gone too far. It's time that America took a little difference stance
here. When compassion and common sense are in conflict with the law, then
the law is wrong.
COLOFF: All right. Well, we thank you both for being part of the
program and for getting involved.
HELMERS: Thank you.
COLOFF: Mr. Corbett, thank you for being part of the program.
CORBETT: Thank you.
COLOFF: That does it for our local show for today. Thanks for your
input. It's about ten o'clock on KCNZ.
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