Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 02:29:37 -0600 To: [iowanor m l] at [commonlink.com] From: "Carl E. Olsen" <[c--l] at [mail.commonlink.com]> Subject: KCNZ 1250 AM (PART 4) December 9, 1996 Ron Corbett and Allen Helmers on KCNZ 1250 AM 721 Shirley Street Cedar Falls, IA 50613 319-277-1918 PART 4 COLOFF: Welcome back to the program. Local talk radio on KCNZ. Talking about the medicinal uses of marijuana. Should it be legalized in Iowa? It has been in Arizona and California. Is this sweeping the nation? Is it going to be everywhere soon? Well, not in Iowa probably. It sounds like it won't come up this year. We've got a caller on the phone. Allen in on line two, but first off we want to give the other Allen, Allen Helmers, our guest here in the studio, a chance to answer the question. A caller called in and wanted to know if he would support legalization of crack cocaine if it helped make someone feel better. Or, how about heroin? What if that helped someone feel better? HELMERS: Cocaine is already available through your doctor. Crack cocaine, there's really no medical use for it, according to any literature that I've ever read. Yes, I would support heroin, which I do believe is available through doctors in some states, it was on the Arizona referendum, for chronically ill people, under a doctor's supervision. I don't think heroin belongs on the street, as well as any other drug. It's too easily abused. COLOFF: Uh hum. And, Ron, any comment on that? What if we passed this, and then we have the next group that want to legalize something else? CORBETT: Well, that's the point I've been trying to make, that all the safeguards that the legislature, whoever, other legislators around the country can put in, this issue it just seems to me, at least the way I understand it, and what I've been able to read about it, that it's way open to abuse and misuse through the process, with today anything being classified as a medical use. I mean, so for you to start saying that, well, only people that have chemotherapy are allowed to use it. Well, what happens if someone develops carpal tunnel and they have some extreme pain in their wrist? And then some person that has it says, well, these drugs aren't working for me, so I want to use marijuana. And so, I mean, where do you draw the line on an issue like this? COLOFF: Uh hum. CORBETT: And, I don't know where you draw the line. So, rather than trying to guess where to draw the line, we've elected not to authorize this in Iowa. Let some of the other states, through their referendum process, it seems to be the only way they can get it passed, let them try it. And, in three years from now, we'll have an understanding. And, in three years from now we'll have some results. Was it abused, wasn't it abused? All these questions that I've been asking and we've been bouncing back and forth, maybe we'll have some more information. So let's hold off for three or four years and see how it works in some other states. HELMERS: Do you think that doctors are over-prescribing morphine and other pain killers for people with carpal tunnel now? CORBETT: Oh, I don't know. I don't know. HELMERS: Well, there's the point. I mean, if the doctor is prescribing the marijuana, that's the whole point. You must have missed 60 Minutes last night. It started out with a great article about how America is killing its sick people because they're afraid to prescribe pain medication. It was a terrific piece there. I wish you would have seen it. CORBETT: Yeah, I did miss it. COLOFF: Okay, we've got another call on the line here, and if you want to get in on the discussion, 277-1918 or 1-800-913-9479. And, Allen from Waterloo, thank you for holding Allen. What's your comment here on the air? ALLEN: Well, I just wanted to comment on the idea of when will our legislators understand that prohibition does not work, it never has worked, and never will work? These people are going against historical and natural law, and until they come around to this understanding, that it is honest education that works to help people out, prohibition will not work. Since they put a profit into it, drugs will always be out there. The only way to really get a handle on it is to go ahead and let the people do what they want to do, but honestly education them about it. COLOFF: Mr. Corbett, do you think this is prohibition, or just... CORBETT: Well, what you're advocating is, what the caller is advocating is legalization of all drugs then. Correct? COLOFF: Caller, are you there? ALLEN: I think they should legalize marijuana. I do believe that they should go ahead and decriminalize everything else. Yes, honest education is the only way to do it. HELMERS: Because it doesn't make sense locking a person with three ounces of marijuana up for five years, and locking a person who raped a five year old kid up for two. I don't see what's going on. You guys got to start thinking about the laws you're writing. CORBETT: Well, we do. And... HELMERS: Well, that's what's going on. CORBETT: And you know there's a lot of problems out there with substance abuse. Allen, you've already pointed that out. You got hit by a drunk driver. HELMERS: And you gave her seven days in jail. CORBETT: People will abuse alcohol. They will abuse other substances. And, they will abuse the right to use marijuana for medical purposes. So, I think we've proven it. They'll be abuses in it. Now, how do you handle the abuses? HELMERS: Well, people abuse food. People abuse anything there is that can be abused. How do we stop all the abuse? COLOFF: Allen, are you still on the phone Allen? ALLEN: Yes. COLOFF: Okay, do you think that, you mentioned legalizing marijuana for all purposes, is that correct? ALLEN: Yes. COLFOFF: Do you think that if it was legalized for medicinal purposes you'd have a greater case to make to have it legalized for all? ALLEN: I think it would probably help out, yes. I mean, obviously, this drug war that we've got now doesn't work, hasn't, and it won't. So, let's start thinking of some more positive approaches, instead of this negative idea of prohibition. COLOFF: So, this could be the first step in your goal to have it legalized for everyone? ALLEN: Yeah. COLOFF: Okay. ALLEN: I mean, well, you also have to look at the history of things. Like, marijuana basically didn't exist until in the 1930s. The historical name is hemp. COLOFF: Uh hum. ALLEN: And, there's two forms of hemp. There's an industrial hemp, and there's a medicinal hemp. HELMERS: Cannabis. ALLEN: And when they changed the name in the Congress, they changed the name to marijuana and made it all illegal. COLOFF: Sure. ALLEN: What they've done is held back the farmers from growing the industrial form of hemp also. The Iowa Farm Bureau has just passed a resolution calling for studies and research into it for growing it here in Iowa. COLOFF: Okay, Allen, thanks for the call. Appreciate it. ALLEN: Thank you. COLOFF: Okay, Mr. Helmers. We heard from the caller that this could be the first step to legalizing marijuana for everyone, and it sounds like he was talking about letting farmers grow hemp for whatever purpose. Now one of Mr. Corbett's concerns was that this was kind of the first step to an explosion here, and drug paraphernalia, drug use. Do you agree with that? HELMERS: Ah, no I don't. I think that the drug use will end up going down over it. COLOFF: It will go down? HELMERS: I do. I really believe so. And, that's been the way it has gone in the Netherlands and other European countries who are legalizing. There's a couple more, Belgium legalized just a while back. It doesn't pay to put non-violent, peaceful people in prison. Most enlightened societies are aware of that. And I'd like to get back on one point that Mr. Corbett made earlier. The people who backed these resolutions in California and Arizona, the political people, a few of them were Reagan's ex-secretary of state George Schultz, former U.S. Senators Barry Goldwater, Allen Cranston, and Dennis DeConcini, and Nobel economist Milton Friedman, and conservative William Buckley. The people who bank rolled it, like George Soros, one of America's richest men, contributed $550,000. Peter Lewis, Cleveland Insurance tycoon, gave a half a million. John Sperling, president of Phoenix, chipped in, as did Lawrence Rockefeller, Nelson's brother. Don't tell me that's a line up of busy minded pot-head hippies. I mean, the problem is you're trying to turn it into a Cheech and Chong show. CORBETT: No, that's not... HELMERS: There's a medical need, and people are being punished in this country. Is the next step for me to call Dr. Kevorkian? Or, are we going to do like the Nazis did and load sick people in the back of trucks and run the exhaust up into them, so when you get them to the hospital you don't got nothin' to do but bury 'em? COLOFF: Okay, Mr. Helmers... CORBETT: Well, first of all, I never said anything about Cheech and Chong or how I've tried to frame this issue. Now, don't think that I'm trying to make this into a Cheech and Chong show. I haven't said anything about that. I've been pretty open with saying there's been studies on both sides that have showed, yes, there is some medicinal value, and other studies that have said no. I haven't tried to make this a partisan issue. I haven't been in any way... HELMERS: I didn't say you did. That's the tones I've been getting out of the media. CORBETT: Out of the what? Out of the media? HELMERS: Yeah. CORBETT: Well,... HELMERS: From other politicians. CORBETT: Well, you pointed out, that there's, I didn't say that this was a partisan issue. I know there's Republicans that want to use it, want to legalize this. And there's Democrats that do, and there's some on the other side that don't. President Clinton doesn't think it should be done. His chief drug czar, Barry McCaffrey, doesn't think it should be done. Yes, former Senator DeConcini, he thought it should be. Yeah, there's honest people can have honest disagreements. And, I haven't criticized anyone for wanting to push this at all. What I've said is, where do you draw the line on this slippery slope? How do you prevent the fraud? HELMERS: Let's make it... CORBETT: In the system? HELMERS: Put it, reschedule it on the same level with cocaine, morphine, or any of your other Schedule II drugs. COLOFF: Okay, we're going to take a call here. We've had Andy waiting on line one for quite a while now. 277-1918 or 1-800-913-9479. Andy from Waterloo, you're on the air. How do you feel about this issue? ANDY: Well, I agree with that first caller. I can't understand why this man keeps talking about prohibiting it. If you're going to, if these people really need marijuana, and physicians say they do, then they should be able to have it. But, hey, let's quit fooling around, that's not prohibiting it. COLOFF: But, Andy, what about if you were laying in bed and you said that you needed it, and how can I prove that you don't? What would happen if that happened? ANDY: Well, I have a doctor. And, if he says I need it, then fine. COLOFF: But, don't you think people lie to their doctors once in a while? ANDY: That's right. COLOFF: Well, how do we prevent that? ANDY: You don't prevent liars. I mean, look at the politicians we got here today. COLOFF: (laughter) Well, that's a cheap shot, Andy. CORBETT: What have I lied on? ANDY: You haven't lied to me, sir. COLOFF: Mr. Corbett, go ahead. CORBETT: You said, look at the politicians. What have I lied to you this morning? ANDY: You haven't lied, sir, but Senator Harkin did a lot of it. CORBETT: Okay. COLOFF: Well, we're getting a little off the topic now. ANDY: Yeah. But my feeling is this, that if you, this is the first caller said, that if the doctors say you need it, you need it. And just because people lie to the doctors, that doesn't mean that my statement is wrong. If the doctors say you need it, and if I need marijuana, fine, if the doctor says so. That's the only thing. And, talking about profit, my goodness, look at what the dopers are making today. The prostitutes, the pushers, out on the streets. They're making big profits. They're robbing out homes in order to get that dope money. COLOFF: Andy, I appreciate your call. Thanks for chiming in. ANDY: Okay. COLOFF: Okay, Andy from Waterloo. And we are going to be back, we've got to take a break here for another CNBC business report, and have more from Ron Corbett, Republican from Cedar Rapids is the House Speaker, and from Allen Helmers who's an advocate for the medicinal use of marijuana. More of the program on local talk radio coming up here on KCNZ. It's now ten minutes before the hour of ten o'clock. PART 5 (part of the tape is missing) RANDY: The chemotherapy and finally died of cancer. During the last several years, he wanted to address the nausea problems of chemotherapy with the use of marijuana. And there were people who offered him marijuana, but he would not take it, because he only wanted to do it with the support of a physician. He went to different physicians, and almost every one of them said that it would help, and in many cases would help better than the drugs he was being given. But, they said, I can't help you. You realize what would happen to me if I did. Through absolute fear of our lawmakers the physicians were not doing their job with their patient, even though they knew it was the best road. And, that's what we're doing by making this thing a criminal situation. It should be taken out of the class I category that it's in, and put in just like any other prescribed medication. COLOFF: Okay, Randy, thanks for the call. RANDY: Thank you. COLOFF: Mr. Corbett? Any response? CORBETT: Well, I think the gentleman has a good point. And, if you could just narrow it down to that aspect of it, there'd be, you'd think it was easy to do. But, just as there's people that will abuse drugs, you can have physicians. I mean, it isn't going to be any matter of time where everybody's going to know the physician that's going to approve it for whatever reason, and to get the signature. I mean, that word will be on the street in no time. An, so, it's extremely hard to police, and it's hard to prevent the abuses from it. So, we have it in two states. Let's find out how it works in those two states. Now, they've legalized it. So, we're going to have some data and information over the next three or four years on this subject. This certainly isn't going to be the last time that this issue is going to be debated. It's going to be debated hotly around the country more and more as more and more referendums get on ballots, and, so, let's see, let's let other states, let the other states experiment with it at this point in time. COLOFF: And if it works there, would you be willing to go along with it in the future? CORBETT: Well, the more information you have, I mean, I've never been a person that's believed that someone should be locked in stone for whatever reason on their opinion. If you have more and more information and data that can provide you, that's provided to you, it helps you in your decision making process. Why not? I would be foolish to ever say that, I mean, if my questions and concerns are answered, and we don't find out in Arizona and in California that marijuana use goes up among fourteen and fifteen year olds, and there aren't some of the problems that I say possibly could arise. It's not just me, but the national drug czar and other people, President Clinton, say can develop from this. We'll know in a couple of years. COLOFF: Okay, and we're going to go back to the phones, 277-1918 or 1-800-913-9479, and, Thomas, you're on KCNZ. Your comments. THOMAS: Yeah. My question is for the Speaker. Why won't he put it to a vote? COLOFF: Mr. Corbett? I guess, it came up. Why not? CORBETT: Well, there's several things. I'll just let you know the legislative process. We're only there for a few months. And, there's two thousand different bills that are introduced, and there's no way you could bring every bill on up into committee and up on the floor. You'd be there all year long. And so we're part time, so... THOMAS: Well, it seems pretty simple to me. CORBETT: So you pick and choose the issues that you're going to bring forward. I don't think there's enough votes for it. So, why go through three, four, five, six days of debate on an issue like this and then have it be defeated? HELMERS: Well, there's a lot of us voters who would like to know where you stand on it, for next election. CORBETT: Well, you know, (laughter), you know where I stand. HELMERS: Would you like some reliable information? There's a couple pages of full of studies that have been done which are very easily obtained. I will make sure you get a list of those studies that were done by scientific people. The information, the literature is out there. CORBETT: I think most of the people that run for public office will let you know where they stand on this. You just said locally, a local senator there supports it. There's a questionnaire that we get on every group and organization on all their different issues. I remember getting one on this specific issue. I checked the no box and sent that back, so I'm certainly not hiding my position, so... HELMERS: Elaine Szymoniak introduced a bill for this last year. CORBETT: Pardon? HELMERS: Elaine Szymoniak had a bill that she introduced on this issue. CORBETT: Well, I understand. And she's a senator again, and maybe she'll introduce that legislation again. HELMERS: Okay. CORBETT: I'm not saying that all one hundred representatives and fifty senators don't oppose this or support it. There's a difference of opinion. That's the democracy and the process, but there aren't the votes right now to pass it in the house. COLOFF: Ron, last year when that bill came up, did it come up for discussion last year, or not? Do you remember what happened to that bill that she introduced? CORBETT: It got assigned to committee. It didn't even come out of committee. There wasn't any public hearings on it, or anything. It just, whoever was the floor manager of the bill didn't do anything with it. COLOFF: Okay. We're running out of time here, and, Mr. Corbett, I need a last comment from you. CORBETT: Well, I think we've had some good discussions, and this we're going to continue to have, not just on talk shows, but on editorial pages and continue discussion and education about these issues. And, I'm not going to act like I know all the answers. I'll continue to read the stuff that Mr. Helmers and other people send me, and I hope that they would also consider the other side. And this is going to be something that we'll be discussing for quite some time. COLOFF: Okay. Mr. Helmers, about thirty seconds to wrap it up. HELMERS: Okay. Well, I think we have to stop locking up chronically ill people in the name of the drug war. The cost of this war that the politicians have going on has risen $15.1 billion in Clinton's 1997 budget. It's gone too far. It's time that America took a little difference stance here. When compassion and common sense are in conflict with the law, then the law is wrong. COLOFF: All right. Well, we thank you both for being part of the program and for getting involved. HELMERS: Thank you. COLOFF: Mr. Corbett, thank you for being part of the program. CORBETT: Thank you. COLOFF: That does it for our local show for today. Thanks for your input. It's about ten o'clock on KCNZ. *********************************************************************** * Carl E. Olsen * [c--l] at [commonlink.net] * * Post Office Box 4091 * NORML News archived at: * * Des Moines, Iowa 50333 * http://www.calyx.com/~olsen/ * * (515) 262-6957 voice & fax * http://www.commonlink.com/~olsen/ * ***********************************************************************