Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 18:32:44 -0600
To: [iowanor m l] at [commonlink.com]
From: "Carl E. Olsen" <[c--l] at [mail.commonlink.com]>
Subject: KCNZ 1250 AM (PART 3)
December 9, 1996
Ron Corbett and Allen Helmers on
KCNZ 1250 AM
721 Shirley Street
Cedar Falls, IA 50613
319-277-1918
PART 3
COLOFF: Good morning. Local talk radio on the air on KCNZ, your
information station. You're going to have a chance to get in on the
discussion, if you'd like to. We're going to open up the phone lines here
in just a bit. 277-1918 or 1-800-913-9479. We're talking about the
medicinal use of marijuana, not for a drug, but maybe for medicinal usage.
Is that possible? We're talking with Allen Helmers. He suffers from a
disease that causes great pain, and he says marijuana will help him. Is it
possible to have marijuana available to only patients like yourself?
HELMERS: There are currently still eight patients alive in America on
the, there's a compassionate users program, and that was begun in the '70s.
I think there was 15 when George Bush stopped it in 1992, right before he
was voted out of office, two of which live in Iowa, George McMahon which
has, he has nail patella syndrome, and Barbara Douglass who suffers from
multiple sclerosis. So, we do have two of those patients left in Iowa.
That program is no longer in effect, but the people still do get marijuana
from the federal government and claim to get excellent results from it.
COLOFF: Uh hum. Now, you mentioned that there are, for your disease and
your condition, you said there are 300 other people in northeast Iowa?
HELMERS: There is approximately 300 that come to the support group at
Covenant Medical Center from time to time who are members of it. I'm not
saying they all come every month.
COLOFF: So, if marijuana was legalized, would all 300 of these people,
would it be available to them?
HELMERS: I very much doubt that it would work for all of them. The
problem is, what works for Jane doesn't work for Allen. What works for
Allen doesn't work for Jane. We found that out through our group discussion
that, there's no way I could say that it would work for everyone. It does
work for me, and I do know several other people who have claimed results
that they have not gotten from chemical drugs or any other therapy that they
hadn't felt in over ten years. I guess I'm responsible, because they read
my article in the paper and tried it.
COLOFF: Uh hum. Now, how would we know that someone was being honest?
If they said, well the drug is working, rather than just saying that so they
could have more marijuana legally to smoke?
HELMERS: That's a problem. Drugs are abused. Morphine is probably
snitched from a grandpa who has cancer, by the kid, or teenager, or
whatever. Any drug can be abused. The point I'd like to make came out of
an editorial shortly after the election on the 11th of November in the Des
Moines Register. Just one line out of that, outlawing use of certain drugs
for any purpose simply because they are favorites on the illegal market
means we are letting street criminals dictate our drug policy, while forcing
some who suffer from desperate illnesses to pay the price. I believe that
says most of it right there.
COLOFF: Uh hum. Mr. Corbett has been gracious enough to stay on the
line with us and allow Mr. Helmers to have his say. Ron, we're going to
bring you back up now. Mr. Corbett is a Republican from Cedar Rapids. He's
the House Speaker. And a group of Republicans who say they don't want to
see this come up or be enacted in Iowa. Ron, is it true that we're allowing
drug dealers to dictate our legislation?
CORBETT: Well, if you want to take that one step further, if you want
to take that editorial one step further, then just advocate legalizing all
drugs then, if that's the case, because that's what's being done right now
on the street. The problem here is that both sides can argue that there are
studies proving one way or the other. So, rather than saying who's right
and who's wrong on this, let's look at how broad this thing is. And, it may
work for Mr. Helmers. I mean, he just admitted that it doesn't work for
everyone. Well, that's what the law says. The law says we can't
specifically say only Mr. Helmers can use it, but Mr. Doe can't, because it
doesn't work for him. The laws have to be crafted in a way they apply to
everyone and anyone. So, I mean, these things are so broad...
HELMERS: But, there is not a chemical drug that works for everyone.
CORBETT: Well, I'm just saying that when you legalize marijuana this
first step, you're heading down the slippery slope. And you're so broad.
Where do you draw the line? Where do you say, well, only for these people
that are...
HELMERS: We have to draw the line with the truth. It's time for the
truth to be out.
CORBETT: So, you would want it, you have...
HELMERS: I don't want marijuana on the street. I want it legalized
under medical supervision. And, I'm not saying that somebody coming in with
a sneeze and get marijuana. That's not right. I'm saying that under a
qualified medical doctor.
CORBETT: Well, that's how broad these referendums in California...
HELMERS: Well, those laws need some tuning. And the people that wrote
them have even admitted that. I read that in the paper last week also.
CORBETT: And, today, if you look at what caregiver means, what, you
know, people think doctor, they think of M.D., but that isn't the case. I
mean we have a lot of health care providers and professionals that are
recognized as being that. Whether it's a nurses aid, a chiropractor, a
massage therapist, an M.D. The list is broad, so anyone can be really
classified as a primary caregiver without having the M.D. behind their name,
so that aspect of it, as far as being prescribed. I just think that
between, whether it be prescribed by some health care professional, or who
uses it, it's so broad, the definition is so, I think you have too much case
for abuse. And, hey, one of the great things about having fifty states is
that some states can try some stuff to see how it works. In two or three
years from now we'll see. We'll have an ongoing study from Arizona and from
California.
HELMERS: There's been many studies already that for some reason the
politicians would wish to discredit or ignore completely, and Holland has
been legal for quite a while and I guess it's the most pleasant place to be.
CORBETT: I've never been there. Have you?
HELMERS: No, but I know many people who go there, to enjoy absolute
freedom. They do treat people with marijuana over there. The information
is there. When the DEA can block the AMA from scientific studies, because
they will not allow the different grades of marijuana to be imported into
this country, we're letting our police practice the medicine in this
country, and that's not right.
COLOFF: Now, Allen, Mr. Corbett makes the point that if we legalize it
for a few, how can we not allow it to go to all people, or have people just
come in, like you said, with a little pain and they say they need this
marijuana? Now to be, honestly, have you had anyone come up to you, who
they know that you're in this and that you're fighting for this, have you
had anyone come up to you and say, hey, this is great because if this is
passed maybe I can get some marijuana, too? I don't need it but, boy, this
would kind of open the door. Have you had anyone pressure you at all?
HELMERS: I've had lost of people say, oh yeah, it great man, everyone's
going to have it then, and that's not what we're after. We're after
doctor's supervision. I wish that I would have brought my bucket of empty
pill bottles. It's not that they have not tried everything on the shelf
pretty near. That's not the problem. The problem is the marijuana works
where the chemicals are not, and I can't deny that fact.
CORBETT: Well, what you're after, Mr. Helmers, is fine, but the
unintended consequences of people coming up and using it for whatever
reason, being picked up for carrying a commercial quantity of marijuana
going into court saying, well, this is just for medicinal purposes, I'm a
supplier, whatever. I mean, you might as well throw all of our drug
enforcement laws out the window if you're going to start, if you're going to
go down this road. I just don't see how you can do it with the safeguards.
HELMERS: How do we continue to use cocaine and morphine then, through
our medical community? I don't really see the difference, myself.
CORBETT: Tell me how you...
HELMERS: They're both very abused on the street.
CORBETT: Tell me how you keep this from being abused by your local
reefer head.
COLOFF: Mr. Helmers?
HELMERS: It always has been. Now, how are you going to stop it?
CORBETT: Well,...
HELMERS: I'm telling you that you shouldn't be locking people up simply
because they are chronically and critically ill.
CORBETT: And those that aren't?
HELMERS: The reefer head, has he tried all the different pills, has he
went through all these different doctors and medical treatment? We're
talking about oranges and apples. We're not talking about street people.
We're talking about sick people.
CORBETT: Oh, I know.
HELMERS: Is it legal for street people to carry morphine around in
their pocket right now?
CORBETT: Listen, I know that I will lose the debate if the people who
are in favor of medical use parade around the chronically ill, the cancer
victims, the terminally ill, the AIDS victims. Everyone has compassion. I
don't want to see anyone suffer, any more than anyone else does. And so,
then if that's the case, and if that's all the debate is about, is providing
some compassion for these people, and the way to do that is for allowing
marijuana, I lose the debate. I'm fully aware of that. But there are some
other extremely important consequences that come from this. And so, people
are thinking that we're just going to help out these folks that are
chronically ill, and that to help them relieve some of the pain, I'll lose.
But there's more to that. There is more to it than just that. And, when
you start sending messages that marijuana is a legal drug, is for medicine,
then the next step is what? And the step after that? And, I just see the
slippery slope on this issue.
COLOFF: Okay, Mr. Corbett, I'm going to let Allen answer that, and we've
got a caller on the line on hold, so after this comment from Mr. Helmers
we'll take that call.
HELMERS: The point is, I first tried marijuana in the Vietnam era and
realized what it could do. So when I was hurt, I understood. And number
one, at my age, when I was first exposed to it, Art Linkletter was on TV
telling us how bad it was and we we're going to jump out windows and this
and that. Number one, we have to stop lying to our children. Marijuana is
not totally bad. It should not, children should not be using any
substances, tobacco, alcohol or any drugs. And, until we're honest about
what the drugs are, they're going to get into, well, gee, marijuana isn't
anything, maybe crack ain't anything, or maybe this heroin isn't anything.
We've got to be honest right on down the line.
COLOFF: Okay, if you have a comment, 277-1918 or 1-800-913-9479. M.B
is on line one, and M.B. you're on the air. Welcome to the program.
M.B.: Ah yes. I have a question for both gentlemen, I believe. Both
of you seem to be assuming, and saying even, that this drug, this marijuana,
will be given by, quote, a bunch of different caregivers. Why not handle it
as other dangerous drugs are, by strictly a physician's prescription, with
that physician's number? And, not all physicians can even write
prescriptions for certain scheduled drugs. Wouldn't that take care of a lot
of the problems you two are talking about?
HELMERS: That's what we are advocating.
COLOFF: Mr. Corbett? Did you hear the comment?
Yeah, and that's what people in California and Arizona thought they were
voting for, and that wasn't the case. I mean...
M.B.: Well, why not, you're a better legislator than that bunch in
California. Surely, you folks in Des Moines can come up with a straight
forward. Why not handle it like codeine? You can't go down and buy
codeine. You need a prescription. Even for tylenol and codeine combined.
HELMERS: And, they do plan on changing that law in California. Even
the people who wrote that referendum understand that that was written too
broadly.
M.B.: You people wouldn't make that mistake in Des Moines.
HELMERS: Well, I'd hope not, because Jim...
M.B.: Why not give it a shot, and simple say, a physician, on his
medical judgment, signed, sealed and delivered in a prescription? That
takes care of codeine. There aren't too many cases of opium or codeine
running around, for the reason that you can only get it by prescription from
a physician who can write prescriptions for scheduled drugs. I'll hang up
and listen to you guys.
CORBETT: Well, I'd ask, why has the American Medical Association, the
American Glaucoma Society, the American Academy of Ophthalmology, and the
American Cancer Society passed resolutions saying that they don't, there's
no demonstrated medical use for marijuana? I mean, here we're arguing
whether we should have it for medicinal purposes or not, but there are
people prior to that debate that say there are no medicinal purposes.
COLOFF: Okay, Mr. Corbett. We're going to take a break here, we've got
to break. And, we'll be back. And, when we come back, another caller
called in didn't want to go on the air. But, wanted to ask Mr. Helmers, and
I'll let him think about this during our break, that if he would support,
or, would you support legislation for crack cocaine, or for heroin? And, he
wanted to know where the line would be drawn. So I'll let you think about
that during the break. And, we'll be back with more on local talk radio
after this. If you'd like to get in on the show, 277-1918 or 1-800-913-9479.
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* Post Office Box 4091 * NORML News archived at: *
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