Newsgroups: alt.drugs
From: [g--b--t] at [utkvx.utk.edu] (Garbett, Shawn)
Subject: RE: LSD Lethal Dose Info
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 1994 19:28:00 GMT

This is from some private conversations I had about my post, and
the original authors have agreed to anonymously post some comments
back.

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> Also the report was from the Haight-Ashbury clinic I think in
> November of 1967. A drug lab could have easily been on the same block.

It was later than that, around 1970.  I just read the original paper. It
looks like there is no reason to doubt the data... apparently the
victims had up to 0.026 ug/ml LSD in the blood and up to 7mg/100ml in
the gastric contents.  The police recovered about 200mg of the powder in
question which was reportedly 80-90% pure d-LSD-25 tartrate. The
hospital emergency room was within walking distance of the residence in
which the exposures took place (reportedly among guests at a dinner
party), and at least one patient walked to the hospital.

> The medical text is a very good source of info, and dispells a lot
> [...]
> is a 1980's textbook.

Yes, and it's unfortunate that since the 1980s, the toxicological
literature has increasingly become revisionist, dogmatic and biased with
respect to illegal drugs.  Misstatement and outright fabrication are
becoming all to frequent, with a strong tendency to accept antidrug
dogma at face value.

> One interesting fact was that they claimed 0.8 persons out of 1000 who
> take LSD suffer from prolonged psychosis. I personally know of someone

It would be interesting and instructive to look at the percentage of the
general population, particularly any segment which is selected by
socioeconomic, vocational, experiential, intellectual, behavioral or
other factors associated with use of given substances, to determine the
background rate of psychosis.  The most common unbiased conclusion seems
to be that post-LSD psychosis represents activation of a latent
psychological instability similar to that seen in other
post-traumatic-stress scenarios.

There appears to be little or no evidence to support the conclusion that
psychosis is in any way a direct or specific biochemical or behavioral
consequence of LSD exposure.

In article <address deleted to protect the innocent> you write:
>A report of eight patients with severe LSD intoxication resulted from the 
>substitution of LSD for cocaine, which the patients then snorted in
>doses greater than 2 "lines" each. The product was analyzed and found
>to be 80 to 90 percent pure, thus comprising a massive ingestion
>(milligram amounts). On presentation 10 minutes later, five patients
>were comatose, three with depressed respirations requiring endotracheal
>[...]
>
>If anyone out there cares to translate this for the rest of us
>please do so. It sounds quite bad.

I just read the original paper in its entirety.  The patients were all
attendees at a dinner party at which cocaine was being consumed.  The
authors pointed out that "snorting" of LSD tartrate was common at the
time when a more rapid onset was desired.  The effects described are
consistent with ergot alkaloid poisoning.  Patients exhibited varying
degrees of anticoagulation (abnormal blood clotting), minor bleeding,
vomiting, diarrhea, tachycardia (rapid heartbeat), transient
hypertension (high blood pressure) and fever.  Three patients suffered
depressed respiration or respiratory arrest requiring use of a
ventilator.  All suffered hallucinations and sensory disturbances.

Keep in mind these people undoubtedly consumed roughly 1,000 times the
usual active dose.  LSD is derived from the same family of chemicals,
the lysergic amides and amines, which are the active principles in ergot
(a fungus which grows on rye) poisoning.  At high dosage, LSD exhibits
the same systemic effects as other ergot alkaloids.  The hallucinogenic
effects occur at very low dosage, where the systemic ergot-like effects
are minimal.  At such high dosage as those reported, it is to be
expected that the toxic effects of ergotism would be observed.

Many drugs considered "safe" have a margin between effective and
toxic dosage of 5 to 10.  Here, the margin of overdosage was
nearly 1000.  Note also that only three patients required respiratory
support, and that none of the patients suffered any permanent
injury.  All patients recovered fully in 12 hours, and none suffered
any lasting effects, including five who were followed clinically for
some years thereafter.

It is not surprising that LSD would exhibit ergot-like effects at
extremely high dosage.  The hallucinogenic effect is apparently a more
specific phenomenon which occurs at very low concentrations.  Other
ergot alkaloids exhibit varying degrees of hallucinogenic activity,
though most do so only at toxic levels.


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I didn't write this
Shawn Garbett