From: Ron Shaw <[r t s] at [ddi.digital.net]> Newsgroups: talk.politics.drugs Subject: MJ Scientific Study Reply Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 18:13:49 -0400 TO Whoever Posted this: I received this message 2nd or third hand. I will try to answer as many questions as possible but first I do have a few things to say that may clear up some of the misunderstandings. Some people see fit to dispute the fact that Marijuana works for many ailments. No one scientific study can prove or disprove certain persons beliefs that Marijuana helps them and as some have repeated time and time again, in the case of a terminally ill person or a person in constant pain, just the idea that something works, not why or how it works, can be the helping factor. Wheather or not a drug is good for you or helps you physically is not the question. But rather if the patient thinks it helps even if it's purely pyschological, it does help. TO understand this, most of you would have to bein the same situation. Now in the case of marijuana for Glaucoma. I have a few friends one of who the US gov operated on her left eye at least 10 times. and in that eye the girl is completely blind. at the same time they were doing the operations the girl was smoking marijuana, that eye after 12 or more years is still functioning at about the same level as it was when the operations on her other eye started. YOU tell her that the use of marijuana had nothing to do with her remaining eye still functioning. Then there is Robert Randall, The head of ACT (Alliance for Cannabis Theraputic). HE was diagnosed with Glaucoma more then 15 years ago (probably over 20). Robert, because of the use of Marijuana still, after all these years continues to have sight in both eyes. You tell him the marijuana did not help. In the case of Spasms and pain. My case. I'm Ronald Shaw. I experience constant pain and spasms 24 hours a day. The spasms are in my legs, arms, back stomach, chest, fingers and even my eyelids. When I got to sit on the toilet the spasms are so violet I am snatched upright by the force. I have to wear a patch on my eyes when the spasms start there. They have tried just about every muscle relaxant and anti convulsion medicine on the market to stop the spasms with no success at all. for the pain they have tried everything from Cocaine patches, Morphine pills, Demerol, Percodan, Vicodin, Valium, you name it (including a TENS unit), they have tried it, again to no avail. The only way to stop the pain is for me to be completely unconsious, and even then you can watch my body twitch and jerk profusely. Now, being at their wits end, the doctors told me my last chance was a morphine stomach pump. The pouch would go either in my back or stomach with a refill nozzle to come out of my stomach or wrist. But (get this), They stated it would do nothing to quelch the spasms, wouldnt even addess the spasm problem, and that they were doubtful if I would get much in the way of relief for the horrendous and constant pain I experience. Well, I tried 2 puffs of a marijuana cigarette a few years back (you can read that story at toons garden) and you could visually see the spasms stop. my eyelids stopped spasming, my legs, stomach and I could even use my computer again since my fingers did not spasm all over the place and the pain was diminushed to here it was tolerable! The reduction/stopping of the spasms can be measured and seen visually with out any special equiptment and has been proven. I mentioned the above because I want these next statements i make to be completely understood. If your heart is dead set against marijuana, no amount of talking, data, stories or studies will change your mind. But if you are an intelligent and sincere person trying to understand the situation with marijuana this may give you the insight needed for you to come to a conclusion on your own, for yourself and yourself only because the ones of us that marijuana has helped don't give a damn how you or anyone else feels about it since we are the ones suffering and not you! These explanations are only for your information and understand that typing this in is not with out great physical pain. For you that say Marijuana has no medical benefit, have you ever been in true pain? Have you had any one in your immediate family that you truly loved in pain and have you watched that person while they were in agony? Nope, I doubt it. Have you ever had to make a decision between giving your loved one a morphine stomach pump or a marijuana cigarette? Have you ever been told you will be completely blind soon then found out that by smoking marijuana it may slow the process down or stop it? have you ever taken Medications that made you violently ill then given another to try to counteract the side effects of the main drugs? Consider all these things and then deduce what you will. Since I am in considerable pain while writing this understand the mistakes I make here are of no concern to me I am trying to hold on to the little energy I have to try to finish this letter. SO my only intent is your understanding it, not if its spelled correctly or if the grammar is correct. And my use of profanity should show my frustration with the idiotic notion that someone could prove if a drug helps me (or anyone else) just by a damn scientific (and biased may I add) study. And if you you question my word biased well let me ask you, where are the names of the individuals with the disorders you discuss that you did the study on? I don't consider any of your information valid unless you list the test subjects and open them up to questions. Of course if you would like real and valid information on Marijuana and spasms and pain, Test, me hell i'm available and I guarentee you that if your findings show that marijuana does not work it will carry more weight then this un-realistic non scientific documentation I'm trying to answer now. Please feel free to contact me on this information I have provided and I would like to work with everyone concerned to clear this matter up for once and for all. I have access to the info I have provided and more. If you really want the truth then contact me and we can get the ball rolling. Of cours as i said above, if you are set in your ways nothing can change how you feel and I'm just sucking wind. Ron Shaw Email [R T S] at [ddi.digital.net] ><H3>TRUTH AND LIES</H3> ></CENTER> >Lie: Marijuana is an effective medication for nausea associated with cancer chemotherapy. ><P> >Truth: Oncologists overwhelmingly reject the idea of prescribing smoked marijuana. Crude marijuana contains over 400 different chemicals THC, the main active ingredient in crude marijuana, is available as the prescription drug Marinol, for the treatment of nausea associated with medications are available and preferred by oncologists. The True Lie is that you didn't get the information first hand. From the pepole who actually benefitted from the Marijuana. Ask the people taking the chemotherapy. Hell all the ones I asks, judges included say marijuana does help. Oncologists, just as many other doctors are afraid because they are threatened and intimidated by our government. you dont have to be blind to see it. >Lie: Marijuana is a beneficial treatment for glaucoma. ><P> >Truth: There is no scientific evidence that marijuana prevents the progression of visual loss in glaucoma. While marijuana, as well as alcohol dose cannot be controlled. All the above is complete and utter bullshit. Again do your study first hand instead of using idiots, use the pople who actually have gloucoma, matter of fact I dare you to Call Robert Randall or Elvie Musicacc, both are living proof! >Lie: Crude marijuana is effective in treating the wasting syndrome associated with AIDS. ><P> >Truth: Smoking marijuana compromises the immune system and puts AIDS patients at significant risk for infections and respiratory problems. Current scientific studies show that Marinol (oral THC), which is available to treat AIDS wasting syndrome, is effective in increasing appetite but is ineffective in increasing weight gain. Idiots again. Marinol comes in a captsule liquid its doesage is completely un-controllable, where as you can take one toke off a marijuana joint, with marinol you must take the entire captsule. Also Marinol is very expensive gives many people chest pains, headaches and other un desireable headches. Just who is doing this study or gathering this info. The statements made so far seem to be done with research from another planet. Hell its well know and Documented that if you call a pharmisist he will tell you all the above facts and suggest you want for a college student and buy a bag of marijuana instead of using the marinol. Are you people blind and deaf? WHy do you insist on using people that have no experience with the ailments and disorders you write about with out going after the real facts and the people who have this knowledge first hand (the sick!)? >Lie: The government is withholding important medicine from suffering patients by not allowing the prescribing of marijuana. >Truth: Crude marijuana does not meet the scientific requirements for efficacy, quality, purity and safety necessary to be considered medicine. It is neither compassionate nor medically responsible to prescribe harmful impure substances to ill people. YOU really are stupid here, there is just no other words for it. You consider marijuana to be harmful when Cocaine, Morphine and other horrendous drugs that have been proven time after time to be addictive and highly harmful are legally given to the same persons you talk about above? Amd just how compassionate do you think with holding any drug that may (even if not proven) can ease the pain of someone suffering?? Are you here to tell me I shouldnt smoke marijuana since it may lead to cancer of the lungs 20 years down the line when I'm terminally ill and wont live to see another 5 years? How compassionate does that sound? To me it sounds selfish and stupid. How intelligent is it to have alcohol legal? Would you consider it's effects to be harmful? your statements dont make much sense. Let me give you a little mathematics lesson here (it came from my doctor) If you have a patient terminally ill and in horriffic pain Why would you be concerned about giving him morphine, herroine, or anything else that may make his last minutes here easier? of should you be afraid he will be addicted?? And what would you consider to dangerous to give him seeing he is damn near dead now with no chance? ><P> ><HR> >Lie: Smoking marijuana reduces the spasticity associated with multiple sclerosis. ><P> >Truth: In a recent double-blind scientific study, the latest hi- tech electronic monitoring equipment was used to determine if smoked marijuana had any benefit in treating spasticity in patients with MS. The study found that all patients receiving marijuana rather than placebo perceived their spasticity to be lessened, when in actuality, it was made worse. Thats Bullshit and can be proven thru me, My doctor, the FDA and more! What's more you can visually see the reduction. Again for the umpthteem time, I'm asking this,Why are your studies based on bullshit second handed information? if you want the truth why not test me and others that this readily affects? Hell the gov has our names its not like its hard to find us. Unless you all are to afraid of the truth. The reason I was stuck on the Gov pot program (later closed) was because it was proven that Marijuana does stop or reduce my spasms where no other known drug does. Why do these studies persist with out using people who are affected by these ailments unless you don't want the truth to be known? ><P> ><HR> >Lie: Many doctors want crude marijuana available so they can prescribe it to their patients. >Truth: Most doctors want the best medicine possible for their patients. Although synthetic marijuana (THC) in a pure and standardized form is available by prescription, it is often the last choice of doctors, because What a joke. I see we are still on another planet. The truth is, doctors want the option to perscribe marijuana with out threats from the US gov. that hinders not only their doctors but complete countries if they dont see their way on this drug issue. Again my knowledge, unlike yours comes first hand. You actually think a doctor wants to see his or her patient suffering?? I think not and you better rethink this too. Now if you go up to a doctor and ask him this you really expect him to tell you "Yeah I wanna perscribe marijuana" knowing full well how the gov feels about it and the damage they have done to others (including countries) who didnt think their way? if so you are well on your way to complete isolation. ><H3>BY ANY MODERN MEDICAL STANDARD, >MARIJUANA IS NO MEDICINE. ></H3> ><H2>Drug Watch International Position Statement on Medical Marijuana Use. ></H2> ></CENTER> >Leaf marijuana is not medicine. It is a harmful psychoactive drug, composed of over 400 different chemicals, which should not be used by anyone, especially by people who are ill. ><P> >BACKGROUND: <P> >In the last several years, the public has seen the issue of the therapeutic applications of leaf marijuana reach the level of discussions of public policy. This movement has been fueled by the forces seeking to legalize marijuana. By having marijuana listed as medicine, they hope to "legitimize" marijuana use. ><P> >Marijuana use has serious health consequences. Concentration, motor coordination, memory, lungs, reproductive and immune systems are all adversely impacted by marijuana use; marijuana is addictive. And what may i ask when you are terminally ill is considered worse? dying in pain or dying with a little relief from the use of marijuana? which allow you still to have presence of mind, unlike other drugs, Cocaine, morphine and the like? ><P> >Physicians who treat people for cancer, AIDS, glaucoma and other diseases do not favor the use of marijuana. This is an out right lie and it shows again that if this was a study it was either done on another planet, or did not include real people and their doctors. ><P> >Not one American health organization accepts marijuana as medicine. These include the American Medical Association, National Multiple Sclerosis Society, American Glaucoma Society, American Academy of Ophthalmology and American Cancer Society. Another lie. Read about it everywhere. dont have the info? call me i'm sure i can guide you in the right direction. ><P> >FDA/DEA have repeatedly rejected marijuana for medicinal use Marijuana fails to meet any of the Drug Enforcement Administration's requirements or Federal Drug Administration's eight criteria for approving drugs for medical use. And what may I ask is the right of the DEA to determine a medication? are they now physicians? and you are wrong on the FDA's approval. The FDA has time & time again come up in favor of Marijuana if the doctor recomendation is involved. but again we run into government control and terroristic tacticts as they did to my doctor. After finding out my doctor was discussing my situation with the FDA (and they were in complete approval) the FDA and my doctor were restricted from any further communication on the subject. ><p> >Even Marinol, a synthetic form of THC (tetrahydrocannabinol), available by prescription for treating nausea, has far more negative health effects than other available agents. Yes thats why pharmasists all over recommend the real thing, Marijuana. Just what planet are you from? ><P> >There are numerous safer and more effective anti-nausea agents These include prochlorperazine (Compazine), metaclopramide (Reglan), lorazepam, corticosteroids, thiethylperazine (Torecan), ondansetron (Zofran), promethazine (Phenergan), perphenazine (Trilafon), and chlorpromazine (Thorazine). See my last question.. There are NO safer more effective drugs THAT WORK DAMMIT... Those are the key words "THAT WORK!!!!!!!!!" ><P> >The pro-drug lobby exploits the suffering of patients with chronic illness with false promises about marijuana as a medicine. They have stated that they are pushing marijuana as medicine and using it as a "red herring" as part of a strategy to legalize marijuana for general use. There is No one exploiting me. And do you think entire families like myown would waste their life saving and the risk of in prisonment if there was nothing to the fact that Marijuana works?? Of course they have had the benefit of seeing it first hand. In my case they have seen me loose weight, black out and damn near die from medication after medication and have seen the positive effect marijuana has had. Not just the weight gain, but the absence of spasms and the reduction of pain, not to mention the fact that mentally I was still able to function on a professional level solving problems with computer systems I have never seen while under the influence of marijuana? Something that could not be done under the influence of other drugs such as morphine, cocaine, etc. The problem with and every so called study is unlike our families who experience our medical problems and pain these jerks only experience it from a so called scientific approach which is not scientific because it does not include the persons directlhy influenced by these problems. There is a very simple way to clear the entire situation up and to prove all of this once and for all but evidently our government and others in the scientific world, for their own reasons, are to afraid to face it. and here it is.. Since the study's are about the medical effects of marijuana why not pull the gov file on people using medical marijuana (hell we are all there) and use the REAL PERSONS not some stupid ass study with people with no names. also if marijuana has no medical use, why does persons like Robert Randall Elvie, and myself have the right to use it?? What was the gov trying to say? We smoke Marijuana, but not because it helps us? you dont truly believe that do you? Ron Shaw ======================================================================== | I smoke Marijuana, nothing else the doctors have found will work. | | Read about it http://www.xs4all.nl/~tone/ron.html [the Netherlands] | | SpaZm - [R T S] at [ddi.digital.net] - Legalize MARIJUANA for Medical purposes! | | BBS 407 639-9123 + 407 639-4016 - to 33.6K baud Amiga/Mac/PC/Adult | ========================================================================