Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns From: [c--e--s] at [icis.on.ca] (Charles Zeps) Subject: Waco and Fear in AmeriKa Reply-To: [c--e--s] at [icis.on.ca] Date: Mon, 31 Jul 1995 20:17:23 GMT Poll: Most Distrust Government WASHINGTON (AP) -- Three of four Americans distrust government, the most in polling history, according to a joint survey by Democratic and Republican pollsters. The results suggest an opening for a strong third-party presidential candidate, they said. "It's just not pretty," said Stanley Greenberg, who does political polling for President Clinton. "This is a period of continuing and certainly deepening cynicism." "It's a critique of both parties and the system as a whole," said Republican pollster Fred Steeper. "This kind of attitude, this kind of discontent is a major opening for a third party." The bipartisan poll, issued Monday by the Americans Talk Issues Foundation and conducted with help from both Greenberg's and Steeper's organizations, said 76 percent of the people questioned responded that they rarely or never trust "government to do what is right." That surpasses polls dating back to the late 1950s that showed dramatic discontent in times of political crisis -- 61 percent distrustful in 1974 after Watergate, 69 percent in 1980 after the Iran hostage situation and 62 percent in 1990 following the Iran-Contra affair. "The frustration continues," said Alan F. Kay president of the foundation. "Washington continues to be having a nervous breakdown." The level of distrust has increased dwring Clinton's tenure -- 71 percent in 1992, 72 percent in 1993 and 1994, and now 76 percent, according to foundation surveys. But the pollsters blamed Republicans as much as Democrats for government's poor showing, noting that trust continued to plummet after the GOP took control of Congress in 1994. "The political cynicism has not been dispelled by the winds of change. If anything it's been worsened," Greenberg said. The pollsters mentioned 1991 independent candidate Ross Perot and formgr Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairman Colin Powell as two well-known potential independent contenders for the 1996 presidential race. Jesse Jackson, who has sought the presidency twice before, also has not ruled out another try. The analysts said the public is looking for a dynamic personality not tied to any group. Greenberg said the public is likely to continue to be disenchanted in the near future. But Steeper said the tide could turn if the leaders quit bickering on topics such as Waco and Whitewater and complete serious attempts to reduce the budget deficit without cutting popular programs. "I don't think anything is permanent," Steeper said. "Government trust increased under Reagan. But right now, people don't perceive anything getting done. The Democrats and Republicans can share the blame." Reasons people listed for distrusting government included wasting money (93 percent); politicians telling people "what will get them elected" (88 percent); taxes that help corporavions more than people (81 percent); politicians "do whatever they want" once elected (79 percent) and laws that help immigrants and "hurt American citizens" (74 percent). Respondents could list more than one. The survey was conducted by telephone from June 20 to June 28, taking a national sample of 1,000 people. The margin of sampling error was plus or minus 3.2 percent. Other findings of the wide-ranging poll include: -- 61 percent believe the United States is moving "on the wrong track." -- 68 percent believe the world is moving "on the wrong track." -- 59 percent approve of the job being done by the United Nations. -- 76 percent believe the U.N. should be the "policeman to the world" instead of the United States (19 percent). -- 69 percent say the U.N. should take the lead to deal with world aggression, while 28 percent believe it should be the United States. Words Fly At Waco Hearing WASHINGTON (AP) -- President Clinton's legal adviser lashed back today at the GOP leader of the Waco hearings, saying he was irresponsible to charge that the government "killed over 80 people" at the Branch Davidian compound, and that Clinton was involved in the decision. In a letter, White House Counsel Abner Mikva told Rep. Bill Zeliff, R-N.H.: "Your comments were nothing short of irresponsible, intent on creating a story without any news and alleging a scandal without any basis." On Sunday, Zeliff said on NBC's "Meet the Press": "We had a tank that went through that front door, went into that area where women and children were there (and) we killed over 80 people." Mikva told Zeliff he was "distressed that you would go on national television ... (and) suggest that you are exposing hidden misdeeds. That is a disservice to the American people." Zeliff opened today's hearing by saying Clinton appeared to be distancing himself from his involvement in the Waco decision. "Even the president ... has been quick to dismiss further questioning" about the Waco siege, Zeliff said. "Frankly, the impression that leaves -- rightly or wrongly -- is that the president is distancing himself from the original, March-through-April 1993 decision-making process (and) does not favor further review," Zeliff said. But his GOP co-chairman appeared to take a softer stance, saying the testimony presented in the congressional hearings showed that the Davidians -- not the tear gas pumped into the compound by FBI agents -- started the April 19, 1993, fire near Waco, Texas, that killed 81 cult members, including 22 children. Around 20 of the Davidians were found dead of gun shots. Rep. Bill McCollum, R-Fla., said the testimony "should close the book" on speculation about how the fire started. "It seems very apparent to me the fire was started inside that compound by Davidians," McCollum said in his opening statement on the ninth day of hearings by two House subcommittees. Rep. Charles Schumer of New York, the ranking Democrat on the panel investigating the 1993 Waco siege, accused Zeliff Monday of making an "allegation based not on evidence, but on innuendo." "There was not a shred of evidence there that the president did anything other than hear the plan and approve it," Schumer said. "The president was informed but did not interfere with the decisions of law enforcement experts, and that's how it ought to work. ... I await some hard, conclusive evidence that the president intruded in the decision-making process." Cult leader David Koresh killed his followers when he ordered the compound torched, Schumer said. The fire occurred several hours after a tank punched holes in the compound and inserted tear gas. "I know of no other way to insert tear gas that is more benign" than the method used, testified Dick Rogers, the head of the FBI's hostage rescue team that was on the scene at Waco. "The FBI never fired one shot at the Davidians." Another witness at Monday's hearing, former top Justice Department official Edward S.G. Dennis, Jr., said there was "no question in my mind" that the Davidians started the fire. "It's based on videotape evidence, audio evidence, witnesses from inside the compound," testified Dennis, who supervised the Justice Department's report on the Waco episode. In addition, he said, even if firefighters had been called to the scene, they wouldn't have been able to control the fire because of the flammable liquids spread around the compound by the Davidians and the strong winds. Treasury Secretary Robert Rubin, addressing a Fraternal Order of Police meeting in Virginia Beach, Va., said Monday he is worried distortions at the hearings could destroy support for the police. "Clearly there has been evidence" that some are using the hearings "to undermine support for law enforcement through distortion and misinformation," he said. Rubin said some are trying to use the hearings to lobby for repeal of the Brady bill and federal gun control. Attorney General Janet Reno appears before the hearings Tuesday for questions on the decision to launch the April 19, 1993, tear-gas assault on the compound, which precipitated the suicidal fire. Zeliff said he will ask: "Why did she approve the plan to gas" (the Davidians)? "What information was she given? Who did she share the decision with?" Asked if Clinton was personally involved in the decision, Zeliff said, "I believe he was. ... We believe there is information we can show this week that indicated that he wanted to be informed every step of the way. He wanted to know. He wanted to be involved in the decision process." "I don't believe Janet Reno, who had less than two weeks on the job, made this decision all by herself," he said. Schumer again took issue with Zeliff. "This is the kind of fishing expedition that has given these hearings something of a bad name. ... Before you make an allegation that the president was involved, have some facts," he said. Last week, former FBI and Justice Department officials told the panel that Clinton did not influence their decisions on how to deal with the Waco standoff. I had learned that those who ||||||||||||||||||||||||||| are lying or trying to cover CI$: GO OUTFORUM SEC.8 up something generally make ||||||||||||||||||||||||||| a common mistake - they tend to overact, to overstate their PERMISSION TO case. - Richard Milhous Nixon COPY / REPOST x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x X http://www.halcyon.com/jim/ussliberty X x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x