From: [k d w] at [cle.ab.com] (Ken Whitehead) Date: 28 Jul 1995 14:43:08 GMT Subject: Waco Hearings - Day 7 NRA-ILA FAXLINE NRA Institute for Legislative Action 11250 Waples Mill Road * Fairfax, VA 22030 Phone: 1-800-392-8683 * Fax: 703-267-3918 7/27/95 NRA-ILA Special Report THE WACO HEARINGS: DAY SEVEN It Had To Happen: Pott's Testimony Contradicts FBI Documents After nearly three days of back-to-back FBI testimony, it had to happen. Confronted with the Crisis Center Log that documents the Ruby Ridge operation, former FBI Assistant Director Larry Potts became evasive on the question of why CS gas use was rejected in the 1992 siege. The crisis center log entry dealing with the final operation plan in North Idaho states, "The deployment of gas into the residence presents a high degree of risk to small children." Today, when asked about the Ruby Ridge, Idaho standoff, Potts stated, "There was never a decision to go forward with CS gas or approve the use of CS gas there [Ruby Ridge]." However, both Reps. Zeliff and Barr presented Potts with an FBI document which read: "On August 23, 1992, the above actions will be repeated if no response from the compound is received. The APCs -- armored personnel carriers -- will be prepared to begin destruction of portions of the structure inside the compound. This destruction will not include the major living areas of the main residence. If no response is received at this time, ARCs (sic) will be prepared to deliver chemical agents into the residence in anticipation of conducting an entry into same." Rep. Barr asked Mr. Potts whether or not this document was the "ops plan" for Ruby Ridge. Although Mr. Potts acknowledged that he had seen the approved Ruby Ridge ops plan, he refused to confirm or deny whether the document in question was the officiall ops plan. Rep. Barr: "I think you said the Ruby Ridge crisis center log was inaccurate ... " Potts: "What I am saying is that I think there is more to that sentence ... that there was a decision not to use CS gas at Ruby Ridge was because of the high risk that it poses to young children." Rep. Barr: "But I quoted you the whole sentence." Potts: "Okay. And that's that, we never reached that conclusion, because we never got to a final decision as to whether to use it or not. We asked the question during the course of it, what kind of effect will this have on the children? ... We certainly never got enough information in from my standpoint, or probably from anyone else's associated with that standoff, to use the gas at that time." Experts Dispute Effects of CS Gas It was heard in testimony on Wednesday that the CS gas that filled the Davidian complex may have killed children. It was also heard by another source that the gas would do no harm. George Uhlig, a chemistry professor at the College of Eastern Utah, said that a poorly ventilated area of the house "could have been turned into an area similar to one of the gas chambers used by the Nazis at Auschwitz." He also said that a chemical used to carry the gas into the complex "would have suffocated the children early on." On the contrary, David Upshall, who helped research the gas after it was first used in Northern Ireland, testified Wednesday that "the gas played no direct part in these deaths." In addition, Dr. Harry Salem, Chief Scientist for Life Sciences at the U.S. Army Chemical/Biological Defense Commands, testified Thursday that he informed Attorney General Reno that there would be no permanent harm to the children from the gas. But Rep. Barr held up a coroner's photo and autopsy report of "Doe 57," "a six to eight year old girl, cause of death asphyxia, inflammation of throat and lungs, and there was some testimony last night by a medical doctor that would be consistent -- possibly consistent -- with gas.... Is it possible that the CS gas would cause inflammation in the throat and lungs of a six to eight year old child?" Salem: "CS gas is an irritant. It does cause irritation of the mucous membranes.... To get to where the inflammation is that great, you're going to need a very high concentration, sir, to get to that." Barr: " ... is it possible that it could have caused inflammation in the throat and lungs of a six to eight year old girl?" Salem: "Yes, it is possible that CS can do that." Discrepancies and Inconsistent Testimonies Conflicting testimonies were the order of the day both Wednesday and Thursday regarding CS gas. Jeffrey Jamar, former FBI special agent in charge in San Antonio, testified today that they would not have used the CS gas if they had heard the Davidians talking about spreading fuel. He said that they had no idea about the fuel until the tapes were enhanced. Jamar's testimony conflicts with Wednesday's testimony of Byron Sage, FBI supervisor in Austin. Sage stated that he heard the Davidians talking about spreading fuel before the CS gas was even dispersed. In describing the minutes previous to the first attack on the complex, Sage stated, "The microphones indicate(d) two things -- they immediately donned gas masks and they immediately began to spread fuel." It is not clear why this information was not shared among the other commanding officials. BATF Outgunned? During his testimony on Wednesday, BATF Agent Jim Cavanaugh implied that the Branch Davidians had outgunned the BATF during the agency's failed raid, saying that BATF officers were armed with 9mm handguns while the Davidians were hitting them with .223s, AK-47s and .50 calibers. However, video footage seen by countless millions of Americans in the minutes and hours after the BATF's raid on the Branch Davidian house in Waco clearly showed that many of the BATF's S.W.A.T. team were armed with German-made HK MP5 submachineguns and AR-15 rifles. As events unfolded thereafter, Dan Hartnett, former BATF Deputy Director for Enforcement in charge of the raid from BATF headquarters in Washington, D.C, expressly stated that the BATF had not been "outgunned" by the Branch Davidians. Mr. Cavanaugh's testimony contradicts Mr. Hartnett's testimony from the opening day of the hearings. Hartnett explained that even though AR-15 rifles are normally not used by the BATF, because bullets fired from those rifles are capable of penetrating walls, the agency's S.W.A.T. officers had requested the use of AR-15s for the Waco raid. Eight AR-15s were provided to the agents, Hartnett said, adding that the BATF was not "outgunned" by the Davidians. The Key Was Never Found. What About Next Time? Rep. Watt asked the panel today what they would have done differently if they had to handle the Waco situation all over again. Larry Potts, former FBI assistant director for criminal investigations, testified that the FBI did everything they could from a negotiator's stand point. He stated that one reason they didn't wait any longer before taking action was because of the psychological and behavioral science information they were receiving that indicated that Koresh just wanted "a fight with the authorities." The "emergency plan" was to use gas and knock holes in the wall for escape outlets in order to prevent a mass suicide. Potts said that FBI officials never found the key to solving the problem at Waco, but clearly there were "little things" that they would have done differently. Potts went on to say that they would not have played the loud music and that they have since changed policy issues in response to crisis situations, such as placing negotiators and the hostage rescue team under the same command and providing more advanced training to FBI executives and field commanders. However, Potts did admit that although the commanders of the operation did not have adequate training at the time of Waco, it wouldn't have made a difference in the situation's outcome. In response to Rep. Watt's question, Mr. Jamar testified that the FBI and all of law enforcement have learned from Waco, and they (the officials involved) should be held responsible and answer for what they did. But neither Mr. Potts nor Mr. Jamar believe that major mistakes occurred or that any disciplinary action was or is warranted. Why Not Wait? While discussing why FBI officials went on an offensive attack, Mr. Jamar stated that they wanted to carry out their plan when they were most prepared, rather than waiting for Koresh to make his move. He said that the opportunity to save lives was best when the FBI had the upper hand in dictating when to take action. Their goal, according to Jamar, was to get as many people as possible to exit the building. He also testified that they wouldn't have used the CS gas if the chances of a rescue didn't out weigh the chances of a mass suicide. Responding to the same issue, Byron Sage, FBI supervisor in Austin, testified that it had been 45 days since a child had exited the building and 32 days since a Branch Davidian had exited. Sage reported that this siege was 32 times longer than most sieges last. However, according to him, the gas was not meant to end the negotiations, as they only wanted to execute a safe exit from the house. Several Republicans questioned whether the tank incursions and gas insertions could reasonably be interpreted as a welcome mat. Print and TV News Differ on Waco Story TV news coverage of yesterday's Waco hearings portrayed FBI actions more favorably than did newspaper accounts, a new study reports. The ongoing Center for Media and Public Affairs (CMPA) study found that TV news coverage of Day 6 rebutted charges that David Koresh might have surrendered peacefully, while newspapers criticized the decision to use CS gas. NBC continued to pay the least attention to Waco, airing only a 16-second in-studio summary. The CMPA's research shows that television and newspaper coverage of Day 6 differed sharply. The evening news stories revolved around emotional testimony from FBI and ATF agents defending their actions against the previous day's critics. But the morning papers (especially the Washington Post) featured testimony from a later panel that questioned the FBI's use of CS gas against children. The FBI's actions were supported by a majority (54%) of comments from sources and reporters, in contrast to the previous day's barrage of bad press (85% negative judgements). Networks Air FBI/BATF Version of Events According to CMPA, testimony by FBI agent Jeffrey Jamar and ATF agent Jim Cavanaugh got heavy play on TV news shows, accounting for 10 of the 13 in-depth discussions of the days witnesses. The FBI's good press came mostly on the Wednesday evening news shows (67% positive comments), CMPA research found. Thursday morning's newspapers balanced the bureau's defense of the April 19 raid with criticism over its use of CS gas. The Washington Post gave the heaviest play to this angle, leading with written testimony comparing the Branch Davidian children's fate to the "gas chambers used by Nazis at Auschwitz." But the Post also published an op-ed by staff columnist Richard Cohen attacking the GOP Congress for "partisan ugliness" and "political grave robbery" in holding the hearings. Result: Bad press for both the executive and legislative branches. Has NBC Signed Off Waco? CMPA research showed that NBC gave the hearings short shrift for the second straight day. Two-day total coverage -- 30 seconds. Overall, NBC's Nightly News has devoted only half as much airtime to the hearings as ABC's World News Tonight. At the other end of the broadcast spectrum, PBS's MacNeil/Lehrer NewsHour has featured 8 times as much Waco coverage as NBC. EVEN LOWER MEMBER DISCOUNT ON TRANSCRIPTS!! Complete transcripts of the hearings are available to NRA members for an even LOWER DISCOUNT RATE of $9.95 a day!! Call Jack Graeme at the Federal News Service at 1-800-969-3677 to receive a daily transcript. Be sure to mention that you're an NRA member to secure the incredible discount rate. 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