Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc,talk.politics.misc,alt.activism,alt.conspiracy,soc.veterans.
From: [b 645 zaw] at [utarlg.uta.edu] (Stephen Tice, Arlington, Texas, uXa)
Subject: Re: Judgment Day for America 
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1993 06:28:00 GMT

In article <[1993 Jul 7 210610 5504] at [seachg.com]>, 
[c h risb] at [seachg.com] (Chris Blask) writes...

>[s t rom] at [Watson.Ibm.Com] (Rob Strom) writes:

>>A silent press, and witnesses held incommunicado
>>for months doesn't give me any warm fuzzies.
> 
>By witnesses you mean prisoners?  Have you seen a lot of prisoners
>interviewed on TV before a trial?

Let me make absolutely clear that Livingstone Fagan has been held
for 4 months IN TWO DIFFERENT JAILs, IN REGULAR CELLS, for nothing
more than being a *WITNESS*. He has not been convicted of anything.
He hasn't been charged with anything. 

When they do free him, they'll likely try to deport him (as has been
done with a Davidian who's a Jamaican national) -- and stick him right 
back in a cell in an INS "facility," (since he's British). Which is hor-
rible, since his two children who came out the from Mt. Carmel the first 
week, as he did, are lost off somewhere in Texas Protective Services. 

Fagan came out the first week of March, and was never charged with
anything, but has been held since as a "material witness." 

It makes me sick. I couldn't even go back to evening "July 4th" church 
services last sunday -- cause I found during morning services that I 
can't bring myself to say the pledge of allegiance any more. My nation 
has become the evil-enemy that the Soviets were, that I stood against 
for 11 years while in US military service. Now I understand why the 
flag-burners burned flags... but I still can't. Cause =America= is all 
the people who have ever been Americans living and dead, and many if 
not most of them were good people. And this land is where 8 generations 
of the bodies of my European ancestors, and much much farther back in my 
indian roots, are most all buried.

I am deeply hurt and ashamed of what it's become though. And heartsick
to find that the government has become so wicked, and the people so un-
caring. I hope God will open your eyes. The truth of all this is only
hidden by a very thin veil -- which any of you could see through -- if 
you cared. Some have, and to you I'm greatful -- be careful though.

I knew something was badly wrong when the federal authorities re-edited
the tape Koresh released, putting a part of something he'd said later on 
the front -- by their own admission. So I got hold of a copy of the tape 
myself, from the broadcast studios, and made a transcript. Compared it to 
the transcript published in the Ft. Worth Star-Telegram, which was credi-
ted to the Associated Press -- I was shocked to find that every few lines 
of an hour long transcript were badly twisted. WHY???

I myself went down to visit Livingstone Fagan in jail in Waco, on the
saturday prior to palm sunday. And found he was being held separate from
the rest of the Davidians. Others had been charged, he hadn't. I myself
tried to get the Chaplain involved in providing some unleavened bread
which Livingstone asked for -- the Chaplain explained he couldn't without 
going through the federal authorities, and was never able to get him any 
in. WHY???

I myself tracked down Livingstone after he'd been moved recently, no 
easy matter. He's not being tracked like all the criminals in the Texas
penal system, by number. Eventually I found out from a phone call with 
the British Vice Consul himself, that Livingstone is now being held down 
in Gatesville (city), in the Coryell County Sheriff's Office. There are 
3 other facilities in Coryell county where convicts are kept -- 2 for
federal prisoners. 

I keep emphasizing "myself," because I'm not going on media reporting.
Or what I hear. I've heard all kinds of nonsense spanning the spectrums
of paranoia, and entertainment. And plenty to much of "who cares."

I tried to point out when I started this thread that, I'm not trying
to convince you of anything -- but I am convinced myself -- because 
I made the effort to find out. And it cost me, much more than money,
it cost me my love for *my* country. And I pray to God that he heal
my heart... I've kinda gotten used to crying now.

Be careful, don't make the effort, if your not able to bear the price.

Btw. I've contacted the Ft. Worth ACLU. And been pointed to their
board of directors. Tried calling one attorney last week, who's gone 
this week, but his partner's also on the board. Talked to the partner 
today, since they don't handle federal matters, he's given me the name 
of another director who does.  

I'll call him tomorrow and see if a writ of habeas corpus makes sense,
and if he'll submit it.

I'll also call the Christian Law Association tomorrow, for the same,
which I've held off from till now. Should be interestin' to compare notes.

I reckon I might as well get a second opinion. Any more ideas?

And please, somebody else, someone with guts -- double check me. The 
contact info is in the earlier parts of the thread, but it's best to 
dig it out on your own, I reckon. (Holler otherwise.)


   |           "Our fathers' God, to thee, Author of liberty, 
-- J --         To Thee I sing: Long may our land be bright 
   |            With freedom's holy light;
   | stephen    Protect us by Thy might, Great God, our King!"