From: [t--g--e] at [convex.COM] (Mike Tighe)
Newsgroups: misc.legal,tx.general,tx.politics.talk.politics.guns,alt.law-enforcement
Subject: Re: FBI Director's Statement on Waco Standoff
Date: 11 May 93 23:33:41 GMT

[t--g--e] at [convex.com] writes:
>[m c call] at [mksol.dseg.ti.com] (fred j mccall 575-3539) writes:
>>While it will be a long and difficult (if not impossible) process to
>>determine how all of the agents were killed/wounded by whom, some of the
>>ATF casualties were from 9mm armor piercing Cyclone bullets. Since only the
>>ATF had access to these, it is is pretty easy to deduce which side shot
>>them.

>Source, since all statements I've seen have been to the effect that
>they were not friendly fire casualties?

Here is some more:

Press Release from Soldier of Fortune Magazine. Note it also references
Newsweek's April 5 issue, which also documents existence of friendly fire.

           __FOR_IMMEDIATE_RELEASE__

************ GOVERNMENT'S CYCLONE BULLET REMOVED FROM ATF AGENT *********

A distinctive (mm bullet made only for government use, capable of
penetrating most body armor, was used by Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and
Firearms agents in their ill-fated raid on a religious compound near Waco,
Tx., a federal law enforcement source told _Soldier_of_ Fortune_ magazine.
One of these distinctive bullets was removed from an ATF agent wounded in
the raid, said the source, who spoke only on the condition of anonymity.

In the June issue of SOF, which goes on sale May 2, a story on the ATF's
Waco raid reports the use of this specially made ammunition in the Heckler
& Koch MP-5 submachine guns used by some agents. The removal of one of
these rounds from at least one wounded agent proves that agents were
wounded by friendly fire, the source said. The source told SOF "several"
agents were wounded by friendly fire.

The use of this bullet, which is not available to the public, was alluded
to in the April 5 issue of _Newsweek_ magazine. It quotes its own anonymous
federal law enforcement source, who cited "evidence that supports the
theory of friendly fire..."

That evidence is the closely held "Cyclone" bullet, the SOF source said, so
nicknamed by some federal agents in apparent reference to its distinctive
projectile design; a lightweight, tubular bullet made of copper-jacketed
steel that spins around a hollow core. It has a supersonic velocity -- in
the 1,800-to-2,000-feet-per-second range -- and was originally made under
an FBI contract, based on a prototype patented by a ballistics expert at
the Army's Abderdeen[sic] Proving Grounds.

Although variations of the original design have since been made in Israel
and South Korea, the FBI's initial order was placed with Guilford
Engineering Associates in Guilford, Ct.  That was confirmed by a company
spokesman, who said this type of ammunition "is not available to anyone
outside the efederal [sic] government ... The intent was to provide federal
law enforcement with a round capable of defeating body armor. Once it
penetrates, it tumbles.  It's a highly effective anti-personnel round ...
used for close range."

ATF routinely receives samples of all bullets made in or imported to the
United States.  Such specimens go to the ATF's Firearms Technology Branch,
headed by Ed Owens, who reports to ATF Director Steve Higgins.

The "Cyclone" and its equivalents will slice through body armor "like a
flying cookie cutter," said a separate SOF source who helped SOF obtain
samples of the bullets.  It was made in 9mm and .45-cal. ACP and packed in
generic white boxes.  Some rounds have a plastic tip added for smoother
chambering in weapons with high rates of fire, such as the H&K MP-5.  One
munitions expert compared it to a Swedish- made bullet, the FFV9, which
reportedly will penetrate 71 layers of Kevlar, the DuPont-made fabric from
which most body armor made in the United States is manufactured.
-- 
Mike Tighe, (214) 497-4206
[t--g--e] at [convex.com]