Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns
From: [k--e] at [boi.hp.com] (Keith Emmen)
Subject: Weaver and Harris continued.
Date: Wed, 2 Feb 1994 19:45:02 GMT

This appeared in The Idaho Statesman last week, and I thought
I'd post it.  It's pretty long, but it's interesting if you've
been following the Weaver/Harris incident.

I've been pretty vocal with my opinion of the dirty rotten government, 
so I left my opinions out of this. "Just the facts, Mam."

I'm tempted to say typos are mine, but I found some that were
included by the Statesman.  The Statesman also seems to have an
aversion to paragraphs longer than a sentence or two.

I did it without getting or giving permission.

-----------Newspaper article begins here-----------

The Idaho Statesman, Thursday, January 27, 1994

            Charges eyed in Vicki Weaver killing

     FBI Sniper suspect; charges considered in marshal's killing
                     also, prosecutor says

By Dan Popkey and Mike Gallagher

copyright 1994 The Idaho Statesman

   Boundary County Prosecutor Randall Day said Wednesday he 
is considering bringing homicide charges against the FBI 
sniper who killed Randy Weaver's wife, Vicki, in a 1992 
shootout.

   The sniper, Lon Horiuchi, is one of at least five federal
officials under Day's scrutiny.

   "Mr. Horiuchi is a suspect." Day said, "and if that helps you,
I guess it will help you, but that's all I can say right now."

   Day said he is considering state homicide charge against
Weaver and Kevin Harris in connection with the death of Deputy
U.S. Marshal William Degan.

   Besides Horiuchi, Day said he is weighing homicide 
charges against:

* Deputy U.S. Marshals Arthur Roderick and Larry Cooper.  They
  participated in the Aug. 21, 1992, shootout at Weaver's cabin
  that left Degan and Weaver's 14-year old son, Samuel, dead.

* Two top FBI officials, Assistant Director Larry Potts and 
  Richard Rogers, commander of the Hostage Rescue Team.  They
  relaxed the "Rules of Engagement" after Marshal Degan's death.

   Horiuchi, Potts, Cooper, and Roderick were unavailable for 
comment Wednesday.  Rogers, told of the contents of this story,
declined to comment, and said Horiuchi would not comment, either.

   Attempts to reach Horiuchi at his office in Virginia were un-
successful.  His home phone is not listed.

   Spokesmen for the Justice Department, FBI, and Marshals Service
all declined comment Wednesday.

   A federal judge in Boise acquited Weaver and Harris of murdering
Degan on July 8.  Their lawyers said Wednesday that they are innocent.

   The shooting began the morning of Aug. 21, 1992, after Degan,
Roderick and Cooper spent much of the night watching Weaver's cabin,
near Naples, about 40 miles from Canada.

   They were attempting to arrest the white separatist for failing
to appear at trial. He had been charged with selling two sawed-off
shotguns to a federal undercover agent for $400.

   According to Justice Department documents and trial testimony, the
agents were preparing to leave, and make their way down the rough
terrain when Harris and Samuel Weaver, both carrying rifles, were
tipped to their presence by the family's yellow Labrador, Striker.

   Harris and Samuel Weaver began chasing the three agents.  Hearing
shots, another team of three marshals watching from a distant post
raced to help Degan, Roderick, and Cooper.

   When the shooting stopped, Degan and Samuel Weaver lay dead.  It
took marshals, aided by darkness and the Idaho State Police Critical
Response Team several hours to bring them down the mountain.

   According to the documents Day has a possible new witness that
would help him charge Harris and Weaver with killing Degan.

   The witness is James Radler, 31, who says he shared a cell at the
Ada County Jail with Harris for a week in the fall of 1992.

   Radler, according to a Sept. 13 Marshal's Service memorandum says
Harris told him he shot Degan without warning or provocation.

   Harris' lawyers conceded at trial that Harris killed Degan, but
they convinced the jury he fired in self defense.  Marshal Cooper
testified that Harris simply spun and fired.

   David Nevin, Harris' Boise lawyer, said Harris maintains he acted
in self defense.  He said Wednesday that Radler must not be a good
witness, or he would have been called at the trial. 

   "There is nothing any more common than a jailhouse snitch who wants
to buy his freedom," Nevin said.

   Weaver's Boise lawyer, Chuck Peterson added: "We have a convicted
forger, defrauder, and liar who now says that Kevin Harris confessed
to him.  I don't believe it."

   Radler offered to testify against Harris in February of 1993, while
Radler was imprisoned in Wisconsin.  But his offer apparently was not
forwarded to the investigators in Idaho.

   On June 24, he again wrote the Marshals Service, but the jury in
the Weaver-Harris case had begun deliberations.  The Marshals Service
decided to hold Radler's story "for possible appeals," according to
documents.

   On July 11, Radler wrote the Marshals Service wondering why he'd
been ignored.

   "I offered my testimony as to how Mr. Harris told me about how
he shot the officer... He admitted that it was not in retaliation for
the young boy's death (Samuel Weaver), it was just what he had been
told to do.

   Radler is now at the Idaho Maximum Security Institution south of
Boise.  He is serving a three to 10-year sentence for forgery and
fraudulent use of a credit card. 

   In early September, Radler was interviewed by Boundary County Sheriff's
Deputy Greg Sprungl, according to the Sept. 13 memorandum authored by
Deputy U.S. Marshal Roderick, who is also a target of Day's investigation.

   Roderick wrote that he'd spoken to Sprungl about the interview.
"Sprungl stated that Radler is very educated, has a teaching degree and
will be a very good witness.  Sprungl highlighted the following three
items from the interview.

"1. The Weaver family and Harris knew we were coming up the mountain
the day of the shooting.

"2. Harris in discussions with Weaver had decided to shoot first and
ask questions later.

"3. Harris had walked by the Marshal's position and heard someone yell,
'Federal -------', he just turned and fired.  Then there was all kinds 
of shooting."

   Roderick had testified that Harris shot Degan after Degan identified
himself and ordered Harris to halt.

   Roderick's memo also said more evidence gathered at the "Y," where
the shooting took place, will be used against Weaver and Harris.

   "Approximately three weeks ago these investigators (Sprungl and
Sheriff Whittaker) and crime-scene experts (the same experts hired
by the Marshals Service for the trial) uncovered more evidence at 
the "Y" area on Weaver's mountain," Roderick wrote in the Sept. 13
memo.  "This evidence is consistent with the statements made by 
myself and (Deputy U.S. Marshal) Larry Cooper and inconsistent with
the statements made by Weaver & Harris during the standoff and after
the arrest."

   The evidence includes hundreds of shell casings discovered by
Whittaker and his team.  The large number of shells may confirm marshals
reports that Harris, Weaver and his son engaged in a major shootout 
with the deputy marshals, said sources in the Justice Department.  The
sheriff's discovery also conflicts with an earlier FBI report that
only about 20 casings were found at the site.

   Within 24 hours after the deaths of Degan and Samuel Weaver, the 
mountainside was crawling with hundreds of marshals, police, FBI agents,
and members of the Idaho National Guard.  Among the were Horiuchi and
his Hostage Rescue Team.

   At the same time Rogers rushed by air from Washington D.C., to Idaho.
While in the air, he talked to Potts by phone.  They decided to suspend
the "Rules of Engagement."

   That meant Horiuchi and his fellow snipers had authority to shoot and
kill any armed male outside the Weaver cabin.  Rogers would later say he
eased the rules because one federal marshal had been killed and Weaver
and Harris posed a threat to other agents.

   Normally, lethal force may only be used on persons who pose a 
"clear and imminent" danger to an agent's or another's life.

   In signed statements given to FBI investigators, and in trial 
testimony, Horiuchi said his actions fell within guidelines of proper
conduct under the relaxed rules.

   Horiuchi testified at the federal trial of Weaver and Harris that he
accidentally shot Vicki Weaver and meant to kill Harris.

   Initially, the FBI plan called for agents to approach the cabin, and
give Harris, Weaver and his wife and three surviving children a chance
to surrender.

   At about 6pm, however, before a surrender order was given, Horiuchi
spotted Randy Weaver near the "birthing shed," where the Weaver women
went during menstruation.

   Horiuchi fired two shots.  He said he fired to protect a government
helicopter carrying G. Wayne "Duke" Smith, associate director of 
operations for the Marshals Service, and other officials.

   But Smith testified at the trial that he never felt intimidated
while in the air.

   Sources at the Justice Department, FBI and Marshals Service said 
Day plans to use Smith's testimony to show Horiuchi fired without 
justification.

   Day would not comment on his strategy.

   Horiuchi's first shot missed Weaver by inches, hitting a shed and 
sending splinters into Weaver's arm.  Weaver, his daughter Sara, then 16, 
and Harris ran toward the cabin.

   Horiuchi said he then trained his .308 caliber rifle on Harris as
he neared the front door.  His second shot hit Vicki Weaver in the
face.  Bullet and bone fragments hit Harris, injuring him seriously.

   "I believed that allowing him to reenter the cabin with his rifle,
from which he could fire from a protected position, would create an
increased threat to the helicopter and/or the HRT (Hostage Rescue Team)
members..." Horiuchi wrote in an official post-shooting report for his
superiors.  "I was still aware of the 'Rules of Engagement' relative to
an armed male subject outside the cabin.  I decided to neutralize that
male and his rifle."

   Horiuchi said he saw Harris stop "abruptly at the doorway to the
cabin as if he had collided with someone."

   He said the door was open, "but I believed, even though the subject
(Harris) at whom I fired was on the porch at the door, that my shot 
would not impact the cabin itself.:

   From the night of the shooting, Horiuchi has maintained Harris was
alone and outside the cabin when he attempted to shoot him.

   His insistence that he did not aim at the doorway is significant.
If he knowingly shot through the door to hit Harris, sources said
he would have violated a basic FBI rule:  Agents may not fire blindly
into a building.

   Horiuchi said he only learned days later that he'd killed Vicki Weaver.

   Horiuchi described his second shot like this:

   "As the shot impacted, I believed that I saw the male subject at
whom I'd fired flinch, and I believed that I had hit him low around
the hip area.  Immediately after that shot I heard a female begin to
scream from the direction of the cabin.  I could not distinguish any
words.  The screaming went on for about 30 seconds, then stopped."

   Prosecutor Day has found that some of Horiuchi's account conflicts
with ballistic and other forensic evidence, according to sources from
the Justice Department and the U.S. Marshals Service.

   FBI records show that Harris was already behind the cabin door -
which opened onto the porch - and behind Vicki Weaver when Horiuchi's
shot struck her.

   Those records include investigative reports and autopsy findings,
as well as as testimony and statements from government pathologists
and ballistic and crime-scene experts who examined the cabin and
Vicki Weaver's and Harris' injuries.

   Forensic and crime-scene experts have determined that Horiuchi's
shot went through the door and then hit Vicki Weaver in the head.
Bullet fragments and her bone fragments then struck Harris in the
chest and arm, breaking ribs and puncturing a lung.

   Day is preparing to show that Horiuchi was negligent because he
violated the FBI policy against firing blindly into a building,
according to the federal sources.

   Finally, on Aug. 31, Weaver, Harris and Weaver's three daughters
surrendered.

   Weaver and Harris were acquitted of murdering Degan, after a 60-day
trial that included 20 days of jury deliberation - the longest in state
history.

   Weaver was convicted of failing to appear in court on the weapons
charge.  He was released from jail last month after serving 16 months.

   Day said he has not decided to charge anyone yet.

   "The decisions have not been made and we have not gotten to the 
bottom line as to what the evidence will show," Day said.

   He said he will not settle on a course of action until he receives
the results of an internal probe of the shootings by the Department
of Justice's Office of Professional Responsibility ordered by Attorney
General Janet Reno.

   "It would be foolhardy for me to do anything without having that as
a part of my investigation," Day said.

   Day also said federal charges could come before he brings charges
in state court.

   Earlier internal reviews, in the fall of 1992, by the FBI and 
Marshals Service cleared their officers of any wrongdoing.  

   But all along Day and Boundary County Sheriff Bruce Whittaker have
been conducting their own probe.

   In November, Day and Whittaker were in Washington D.C. gathering
information for their probe.  Day said Wednesday he has cooperated with
federal investigators and they with him.

   Because Weaver and Harris were tried on federal charges of murdering
a federal officer, Day can bring state charges without violating the
prohibition against double jeopardy.  The Fifth Amendment to the 
Constitution prohibits being tried twice for the same offense, but the
state charges could be for violating the state's murder law.

   Assisting in Day's investigation are Deputy Marshal Roderick, a key
witness at the trial, and Assistant U.S Attorneys Ron Howen and Kim
Lindquist, who prosecuted Harris and Weaver, the federal sources said.

   They have helped gather FBI crime-scene reports, ballistic reports and 
written statements from deputy marshals and FBI agents at the shooting.

   Howen and Lindquist declined comment Wednesday.  U.S. Attorney
Betty Richardson said she could not discuss the case because of the
Justice Department's internal investigation.

   Dan Popkey reports for the Idaho Statesman; Mike Gallagher for
Gannet Suburban Newspapers in Westchester County, New York.

--------end of Statesman article------