Newsgroups: alt.society.civil-liberty,alt.politics.usa.misc,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.org.misc,alt.law-enforcement From: [j k p] at [cs.HUT.FI] (Jyrki Kuoppala) Subject: [alt.conspiracy] Randy Weaver trial 1-7 Date: Mon, 10 May 1993 08:04:18 GMT I'm reposting some reports about the Randy Weaver case, another BATF oepration. The seven parts Matt posted separately are put together. From: [Matt Giwer] at [f326.n3603.z1.FIDONET.ORG] (Matt Giwer) Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy Subject: Randy weaver trial 1/7 Message-ID: <[306 2 BED 63 B 4] at [mechanic.fidonet.org]> Date: Sun, 09 May 93 01:22:00 PDT Organization: FidoNet node 1:3603/326 - SPPE, St Petersburg FL Lines: 153 Section [1]: What Really Happened with Randy Weaver in Naples,Idaho By: (Anonymous by Request) What Really Happened with Randy Weaver in Naples,Idaho From my conversation (8/31/92) with: CHUCK SANDELIN-(Preacher), Who, with Bo Gritz, went into the house and talked with Randy Weaver. Randy Weaver used to be in Special Forces with Bo Gritz. Randy and Chuck both apparently know a lot of the people that are Bo Gritz's supporters. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Well, here it is- as close to the horse's mouth as any of us will probably ever get: The scenario: Army Tanks and APC's surround the house, 300 troops from the National Guard, and US Army. 100 FBI,BATF,and local law enforcement, The House is high in the mountains on a rock ridge. "I said Randy isn't going to kill anybody. And I went in there and so did Bo and we talked to him." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Diary of Randy Weaver Given to Chuck Sandelin by Randy Weaver and read to me today by telephone: RANDY WEAVER: (PARENTHETICALS ARE MY REMARKS - LT) 11:30 August 21, 1992, the dogs starting barking. Randy (Weaver), Kevin (Harris) and Sam (Weaver, Randy's son, age 13) ran out to see what the dogs were barking about. Randy was carrying a 12 .ga shotgun, Kevin (Harris) was carrying a 30.06 bolt action, Sam was carrying a .223 mini 14. Old yeller, and Striker,(My dogs) were at the pump house, barking into the woods. Kevin,Sam and I went down to investigate. They Heard something running west, so Sam and Kevin followed Striker, I dropped down onto the logging road heading west. "I didn't have any idea what we were chasing and we were hoping it was a deer. When I reached the first fork in the logging road, a very well camouflaged person yelled, "Freeze, Randy." I yelled, "Fuck you" and immediately retreated the 80 to 100 feet towards my home. I realized immediately that we had run smack in into a ZOG/NWO (Zionist Occupational Government/New World Order) ambush." I stopped to see if I was being followed. About that time I heard a gunshot and Striker yelped. Then I heard two more shots and Striker stopped yelping. I started yelling for Sam and Kevin to return home and that the Feds had shot striker. I also fired my shotgun once into the air to draw attention to myself and praying that would help. I replaced the empty shell with a new one, shoving it past the extractor, jamming my shotgun. I drew my 9 mm handgun and fired 3 or 4 rounds up into the air and I was yelling again for Sam to return home. Sam said, "I'm coming, Dad." I then walked backwards up the hill toward home, yelling to Sam and Kevin to come home. All the while I heard many shots ringing out from the direction of the ambush. By the time I reached home, I still hadn't seen Sam or Kevin coming home and they didn't respond anymore when I called to them. A few minutes later, Kevin came walking home. We asked him if he had seen Sam and Kevin said, "Yes, Sam's dead." KEVIN HARRIS: "Me and Sam followed Striker through the woods until we came out onto the road that forks off the one that Randy was on, and runs north. We (Kevin and Sam) headed South towards the same road that Randy was on. Striker reached the corner first, then Sam, and then me. A camouflaged person was in the road and he shot striker. Sam yelled, "You shot striker, you Son of a Bitch" There was more than one then and they pointed guns at Sam and shots went off. Sam opened fire and I took cover behind a stump as Sam headed up the road towards home. It appeared Sam had been wounded in the right arm. Also Sam yelled, "Oh shit, Kevin come on" and headed home. The men were still shooting at Sam, so I shot one of the SOB's. After they killed Sam, one of the Feds jumped out of the woods, and for the first time, declared he was a federal Marshall. The Feds then grabbed their wounded and left. I then headed home up the road and spotted Sam's body lying in the road, without a doubt, shot in the back. I checked for a pulse and didn't find one and I went home. RANDY WEAVER: "When Kevin got home and told us Sam was dead, Kevin and I, and Vickie, walked back down the road to get Sam's body. We brought him home and laid him in the guest shed. We cleaned his body and wrapped him in a sheet. We also brought Sam's rifle home and that is the weapon I am using now. We left No weapon with Sam's body as was reported on the local news. From that point on, we have never left the knoll and we have prepared to defend ourselves here. On Aug. 22, 1992, Saturday, the next day, sometime late afternoon, we heard our two remaining dogs start barking. Kevin, Sarah (my oldest daughter) and I left the house to check the north perimeter. We didn't see anything, so I was going into the guest house where Sam was, to see him one last time. As I reached up to unlatch the door, I was shot from the rear and hit in the upper right arm. The bullet exited through my armpit. Yahweh/Yashua (God) has almost totally healed it on the day of this writing. When everyone heard the shot, Kevin and Sarah came around behind me and we headed for the house, in this order, Randy, Sarah, Kevin. Vickie came outside the door and yelled, "What happened?" I yelled, "I'm hit." Vickie was holding the door open for us to get in the house, Elisheva (the 10 months old baby) in her arms. A shot rang out and Vickie fell to the floor. She had been shot in the head and she died instantly. She fell in such a way that Elisheva wasn't harmed, praise Yahweh. At the same time, Kevin fell through the door into the kitchen. As near as we can tell, Kevin was struck with the same bullet that hit Vickie, leaving a very large wound on his left upper arm and penetrating his chest. There are also several small fragment wounds on his arm. Needless to say, we understand snipers are everywhere. (They killed Sam, wounded Randy, killed Vickie, and wounded Kevin) The feds totally covered up the murder of Gordon Kahl and Robert Mathews (torched to death on Whidbey Island), they are especially against right white racialists (like Pastor Butler in Idaho) and/or Tax protestors If they think we are going to trust them (we didn't trust them before they shot us), they're crazy. Yahweh is starting to heal Kevin, we constantly pray that he'll be okay. Since Vickie, Kevin and I have been shot, we haven't left the house and do not plan to unless we are starved out, then we will most certainly take the offensive. It appears as though the feds are attempting to draw fire from the house as an excuse to finish us all off. (Sarah is 15, Rachel 12, and Elisheva is 10 months). >>> Continued to next message * !!! >>> * BBQed Baby Back Ribs, Waco style. -- Internet: [Matt Giwer] at [f326.n3603.z1.FIDONET.ORG] UUCP: ...!myrddin!mechanic!326!Matt.Giwer Note: Mechanic is a free gateway between FIdonet<>USENET for the TAMPA BAY,FL. metropolitan area. From: [Matt Giwer] at [f326.n3603.z1.FIDONET.ORG] (Matt Giwer) Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy Subject: Randy weaver trial 2/7 Message-ID: <[307 2 BED 63 B 5] at [mechanic.fidonet.org]> Date: Sun, 09 May 93 01:22:00 PDT Organization: FidoNet node 1:3603/326 - SPPE, St Petersburg FL Lines: 158 >>> Continued from previous message If they even so much as crack a windowpane on this house with thier phone robot, gas grenades, etc., etc., it's all over with. Our heartfelt thanks goes out to all our sympathizers. Our faith is in our creater Yahweh/Joshua/The Messiah. We do not fear the one world beast government. They can only take our lives. Only Yahweh can destroy our souls. Samual Hanson Weaver and Vickie Jean Weaver are martyrs for Yahshua and the white race. Even if the rest of us die, we win. Hallelujah, keep the faith to all our families and brethren, we love you, hallelujah Randy Weaver Kevin Harris Sarah Weaver Rachel and written in, Elisheva Per Chuck Sandlin and Jackie Brown - friend who was inside the house to remove Vickie's body. Chuck Sandlin: Re: Telephone Robot: Paul Harvey said on the radio yesterday "There's a telephone right outside, Randy, reach out and get it and we will communicate with you." When Bo got in the house, Randy said "Come here a minute. See that robot with that telephone in its hand? It's set up so that as soon as you take the receiver, there is a shotgun wired to it." Up the other arm of the robot, there is a short trigger around the elbow. Those that have seen it, Jackie Brown, Bo Gritz, and Randy, say it is a shotgun. It's used for terrorists. One of the BATF agents keeping the public back had a sub-50 machine gun and was flicking the trigger, pointing it at Bo Gritz and a guy jumped between Bo and the man and told him he was breaking the law, and the agent just laughed. The crowd was supporting randy and these agents laughing and smiling about it. Word through the crowd is that a professional riot arouser will be coming to the camp, brought in by the feds. It's as if they wanted an excuse to start a fire-fight with the house. They always burn the evidence. The feds took up a 20 gal drum of gas and a satchel pak to detonate it in a helicopter. Two channel 2 news guys stopped this by identifying that they were watching. Needless to say they were arrested. It seems they were planning to blow up the house with everyone in it, just like Whidbey Island. On August 25, 1992, 10:36, Idaho Bureau of Disaster services: The Governor declared "Emergency Situation and Disaster" in Boundary County and Bonner Counties and martial law is in effect. Cecil D. Andrus, Governor. Declaration of martial law cites to Idaho laws and says: 46-601, authorization of National Guard and Organized Militia in service of the state. 46-1008, activate the disaster response and recovery of the state, local, and intergovernment disaster emergency plans thats acceptable to the affected areas; (b) authorize the deployment and use of any forces to which the plan or plans apply; (c) authorize the use or the distribution of any supplies, equipment, and materials and facilities assembled, stockpiled, or arranged to be made available for use during disaster emergencies. The state of extreme emergency and disaster emergency hereby proclaimed and declared shall continue for a period of 30 days unless sooner terminated or extend in 30 day increments. Chuck related a lot of other details. The US Marshall's service by phone to me yesterday and press releases they faxed said that Randy had been arrested in January 1991 on charges of selling a sawed off shotgun to an undercover agent. Chuck Sandelin said that this was a set up, that it was related to Randy's refusal to be a an informant on the Aryan Brotherhood and also due to some hard feelings that went back to his Special Forces days when he turned in a superior for keeping 1/2 the drugs from drug busts they were making. Another source said that Randy was a well known militant, anti-establishment type that had probably done a lot of things and just never been caught -- like Al Capone, who was finally caught by the IRS, but never really caught murdering anyone. Anyway, he was arrested in January 1991 and didn't even have to post bond. He went home and didn't show up for his arraignment. He may or may not have publicly claimed he would never come out until the false charges were dropped. Regardless, for a bench warrant on a charge that wasn't even enough for him to have to post bond on, the US Marshall service sent a team of six special operations officers from Boston to Idaho to do "surveillance" on Randy for 18 months. Chuck says they were practicing military maneuvers in a two mile perimeter around Randy's house. Chuck's phone was very obviously tapped. So is ours. This isn't funny. Bill, I figured this was the right place to forward this to you (as opposed to RTKBA). LETHAL FORCE FBI Changed Policies During Weaver Standoff (The Idaho Falls Post Register, 01/22/93) Associated Press: BOISE - Rules governing use of lethal force were eased for FBI snipers during the standoff at fugitive Randy Weaver's cabin a newspaper reported. Vicki Weaver was fataly shot August 22, the second day of an 11 day federal siege of the cabin that began when a deputy U.S. marshal patrolling the area was killed in a shootout with Weaver, his 14-year old son, Samuel, and family friend Kevin Harris. Weaver's son also was killed. Weaver, 44, and Harris, 25, are being held in the Ada County Jail pending their March trial on murder and other charges. The death of Deputy U.S. Marshal William F. Degan was cited in easing the rules for the use of deadly force. The Spokesman-Review newspaper of Spokane, Washington, reported Thursday, citing grand-jury transcripts recently placed in open court files. The transcripts also indicate the FBI was concerned Vicki Weaver might kill herself and her children if she was threatened with arrest. The testimony came from Richard Rodgers, the sniper-team commander, and FBI sniper Lon Horiuchi whose bullet struck and killed Mrs. Weaver. Horiuchi testified her death was an accident, that he had been aiming at Harris. In his September testimony, Rodgers explained the eased deadly- force policy, under which Mrs. Weaver could be shot if she offered resistance after being asked to surrender. >>> Continued to next message * !!! >>> * BBQed Baby Back Ribs, Waco style. -- Internet: [Matt Giwer] at [f326.n3603.z1.FIDONET.ORG] UUCP: ...!myrddin!mechanic!326!Matt.Giwer Note: Mechanic is a free gateway between FIdonet<>USENET for the TAMPA BAY,FL. metropolitan area. From: [Matt Giwer] at [f326.n3603.z1.FIDONET.ORG] (Matt Giwer) Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy Subject: Randy weaver trial 3/7 Message-ID: <[308 2 BED 63 B 6] at [mechanic.fidonet.org]> Date: Sun, 09 May 93 01:22:00 PDT Organization: FidoNet node 1:3603/326 - SPPE, St Petersburg FL Lines: 155 >>> Continued from previous message "A psychologist had provided them with an assessment of Vicki which indicated to them that...she was so determined not to have this family unit broken up that she might even kill the children and commit suicide herself if she anticipated she was going to be arrested," Rodgers said. Authorities at the scene subsequently learned, however, that no arrest warrant was to be issued for Vicki Weaver, he said, which made his descision moot. Rodgers said he also recommended unusally harsh application of deadly force for any armed adults at the cabin because Degan's death indicated they were willing to kill law-enforcement agents. "I proposed that when we deploy our people up there to that location, that any adult that's carrying a weapon to be the subject of deadly force, if one of our people has a shot at them," Rodgers told the Grand Jury. Under normal FBI rules of engagement, Horiuchi said, deadly force can be used only if there is a threat to the life of an agent, hostage, or bystander. "In this case, I'm assuming they gave us the specific rules of engagement because a marshal had been killed and the subjects, specifically Weaver and Harris, were known to just shoot indiscrimately at the marshals and pretty much carried weapons with them, so the danger was increased," Horiuchi testified. The FBI planned to tell the cabin's occupants they were surrounded and that Weaver and Harris were subjects of arrest warrants. But on August 22, before an armored personnel carrier could be driven to the cabin to demand the occupant's surrender, a goverment helicopter flew over the site. Harris appeared to be taking aim at the helicopter, Horiuchi's testified, and he was forced to fire. Rodgers said Horiuchi's decision to shoot was justified. "Had we not ever changed those rules to make them more liberal, he would have still taken the shots he took, because those individuals were taking aggressive posture twoard that helicopter," Rodgers testified. Horiuchi testified he was aiming at Harris, who was running to the cabin door, when he fired the shot that struck Mrs. Weaver in the jaw and severed her carotid artery. The cabin had been under surveillance for months by authorities seeking to arrest Weaver, who had failed to appear for trial on a federal weapons charge. The Weaver's three daughters - Sara, 16; Rachel, 10; and Elishaba, 10 months - survived the standoff. (END ARTICLE) [My comments follow - Paul Pratt] Commentary: Horiuchi says that he shot at Harris and hit Vicki Weaver (who was carrying her 10 month old infant daughter) because Harris appeared to be taking aim at the helicopter...but he also states that Harris was running at the same time. So Horiuchi is lying or he can't tell a running man from a man aiming a weapon. Rodgers says Horiuchi could have fired under the "normal" FBI rules, but according to Horiuchi "[u]nder normal FBI rules of engagement, deadly force can be used only if there is a threat to the life of an agent, hostage, or bystander" and there was no such threat, unless a running man is considered a threat to a helicopter. So we have Rodgers trying to cover his ass and cover for Horiuchi, lest someone question his shoot-first order "...that any adult that's carrying a weapon to be the subject of deadly force, if one of our people has a shot at them." Rodgers says he recommended this harsh application of deadly force because Marshal Degan's death indicated a willingness to kill law-enforcement agents, but there is NO indication that these five camoflaged, machinegun-toting marshals gave ANY indication as to who or what they were. By all accounts, the first shot was fired by Degan, killing the Weaver family dog. In the ensuing firefight, Degan was killed, whether it was by Samuel (shot in the back by the marshals while trying to run back to the cabin) or Harris or by the other marshals is unclear. There have been many conflicting stories on this crucial point. I have tried to follow this case, and, to the best of my knowledge, the coroner's report on Degan has yet to be made public. And the "federal weapons charge" that Weaver is accused of? Selling a shotgun that had a barrel 1/4 inch shorter than the federal minimum length of 18 inches. Weaver claimed in his preliminary hearing that when he sold the shotgun it was unaltered and that the man he sold the shotgun to is the one who shortened the barrel. Why would anyone sell a short barrelled shotgun? This makes no sense. All it takes is a hacksaw and 3 minutes and you can make your own. In this respect, Weaver's story rings true. The guy who got caught with the shotgun may have fingered Weaver rather than take the rap himself. When originally charged with this violation, Weaver had been asked to become an undercover agent (a.k.a. "snitch") and infiltrate the Aryan Nations. In exchange for this, he was told the weapons charges would be dropped. After going to a couple of meetings, Weaver couldn't stomach the preachings of the group and quit. The feds then reinstituted the charges against him. Also not mentioned is the fact that Weaver had just finished running (unsuccessfully) for County Sheriff and that in that election Weaver had produced evidence of corruption in the Sheriff's department. This did not make him very well liked by the local cops. RANDY WEAVER TRIAL UPDATE - 4/13 a* received from th* Idaho Survivalist Yesterday marked the seating of the jury. Apparently no other legal activities occurred. The jury was selected and things start today. More interesting is what happenned outside. About a dozen Weaver supporters showed up to stage a protest outside the courthouse. One woman carried a sign that read, "Who stands trial for the murder of Vicki and (son's name - I forget) Weaver?" On the evening news she said, "I am here protesting because I believe in freedom of speech and freedom of religion. I thought we all did." Nice sound bite (grin)! The news reporter also interviewed some guy named "Tim" who refused to give his last name. Not to prejudge the guy, but he looked like a neo-nazi. He also said he expected many neo-nazis to show up throughout the trial. "Tim" had been handing out leaflets in support of Weaver and Harris and the news had footage of a Boise cop telling him to move along or he'd arrest. I don't know the finer points of this one. Perhaps there's a law against political activity within X feet of a courthouse or something (what happenned to the First Amendment?!?). Most ominous of all was that the local reporter filmed an agent of the Gestapo...err...ATF with a minicam FILMING THE PROTESTORS! Welcome to the world of Big Brother. Anyhow, Gerry Spence came out and asked the protestors to leave because he didn't think it would help Weaver's case any. He said he was confident that, once the evidence came out, that Weaver would be aquitted. >>> Continued to next message * !!! >>> * BBQed Baby Back Ribs, Waco style. -- Internet: [Matt Giwer] at [f326.n3603.z1.FIDONET.ORG] UUCP: ...!myrddin!mechanic!326!Matt.Giwer Note: Mechanic is a free gateway between FIdonet<>USENET for the TAMPA BAY,FL. metropolitan area. From: [Matt Giwer] at [f326.n3603.z1.FIDONET.ORG] (Matt Giwer) Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy Subject: Randy weaver trial 4/7 Message-ID: <[309 2 BED 63 B 7] at [mechanic.fidonet.org]> Date: Sun, 09 May 93 01:22:00 PDT Organization: FidoNet node 1:3603/326 - SPPE, St Petersburg FL Lines: 156 >>> Continued from previous message RANDY WEAVER TRIAL UPDATE - 4/14(a) as received from the Idaho Survivalist Wednesday marked day 2, the beginning of the trial. Opening statements were given by both the prosecution and the defense, each side presenting its version of what happenned last August. The prosecution argued that Weaver and his family moved to Idaho in 1983 anticipating a battle with the "evil" federal government. The prosecution alleges that Weaver sold federal agents "sawed off" shotguns and later failed to appear for trial: Despite repeated "good faith" efforts to get Weaver to surrender peacefully, Weaver refused. The shootout erupted when Weaver discovered agents on a surveillance mission and began firing. According to the prosecution, three people were taking an "offensive action" against an FBI helicopter when an FBI sniper killed Vicki Weaver. The defense argued that Weaver and his family moved to northern Idaho in 1983 to practice their religion in peace. They wanted simply to be left alone. Weaver was induced by federal agents to sell the short-barrelled shotgun (and did not, as the prosecution alleged, want to become a "regular supplier"). The defense also argued that the federal government sought to arrest Weaver when he wouldn't become an informant [it is not specified explicitly, but I assume that this is a reference to the white separatist angle of the story. We'll know more as things develop]. The failure to appear in court happenned because Weaver was given an incorrect court date and then indicted before that date. The shootout occurred when federal agent Arthur Roderick killed Weaver's dog that was in proximity to Weaver's son, Samuel. Weaver then fired in self-defense. In the ensuing battle, federal agent William Degan was killed (when his gun was later found, there were 7 ..223 cases nearby and the gun was on semi-automatic: However, agents were near the body for an extended period of time and could have played with the select-fire - this will have to be more fully explained). Finally, the defense claims that Vicki Weaver was only going to "look at the body" [not recover?] of her son when she was cut-down by an FBI sniper. Prosecution quote: "Weaver wanted that confrontation, and he made that confrontation." -- Asst. U.S. Attorney Kim Lindquist RANDY WEAVER TRIAL UPDATE - 4/14(b) as received from the Idaho Survivalist Defense quote: "The evidence in this case is going to show that this is a case where Randy Weaver and Kevin Harris are charged with crimes they didn't commit in order to cover crimes that the government did commit." -- Gerry Spence [nice soundbite!] Notes: The _Idaho Statesman_ claims that Weaver supporters heeded a call from Spence not to repeat yesterday's protests outside the courthouse. However, the local NBC affiliate again had footage on the 10:00 news with 5 supporters including "Tim" again. "Tim" claimed he was a skinhead, who were "ordinary, working class people." He also claimed he was for "white pride, not white power." Outside the courthouse the television crew had an impromptu interview with Bo Gritz, who charged that the neo-nazi protestors are exactly what the government wants to smear Randy Weaver. In an affiliated article carried in the _Idaho Statesman_, about a dozen lawyers were among the 70 or so people packed into the courthouse. These lawyers were present to watch Gerry Spence in action, and to perhaps learn something from him. Some tidbits: Spence flatly told the jurors that he and his son Kent were volunteering their time to represent Weaver because they believed in him. Spence, during his 90-minute opening statement, repeatedly walked behind Weaver and placed his hands on the defendants shoulders (Weaver broke down and cried during the recounting of his wife's death), and Spence compared the "sawed off" shotgun to driving 56 mph when the limit was 55 (another good one!). Tomorrow (Thursday, April 15th) the prosecution was scheduled to begin presenting evidence. RANDY WEAVER TRIAL UPDATE - 4/15(a) as received from the Idaho Survivalist Thursday, April 15 marked Day 3 of the trial. This day marked the first testimony of the trial. Deputy U.S. Marshal Larry Cooper took the stand for the prosecution. The short version is that his testimony was consistent with the opening statements for the prosecution. Cooper testified that he had arrived in Spokane (Washington) on August 17, 1992 to participate in a surveillance operation with five other deputies near the Weaver cabin. The team was using night vision equipment for surveillance, and split up into two teams of three people. The six later met at an observation point above the cabin. After this, deputies Cooper, William Degan, and Arthur Roderick began a descent to scout further possible surveillance sites. Cooper told the court that Roderick threw two large rocks into a gully to see, "whether the [Weaver family] dogs would respond." Striker, the Weaver's yellow lab, started toward them barking loudly. Roderick led the three in a run from the area. They ran through some dense woods into an open area [called the "fern field"] with the dog in pursuit. By this time, Kevin Harris and Samuel Weaver had joined the chase. The surveillance team had reached a Y in the road: Cooper decided that they should take cover in the woods because otherwise they would be an easy target and might be "shot in the back." As Degan reached the Y, he spotted Randy Weaver coming down the road from the cabin ahead. Weaver was startled but did not fire. RANDY WEAVER TRIAL UPDATE - 4/15(b) as received from the Idaho Survivalist At this moment, Striker reached Degan, and Cooper had to "fend him off with his gun." [It is unclear whether this means he clubbed the dog or shot the dog]. Both Cooper and Degan then took cover in the woods. According to Cooper, Kevin Harris and Samuel Weaver continued walking down the road, apparently not noticing the two. After they had passed by on the road, Degan got up on one knee, raised his gun, and shouted, "Stop! U.S. Marshal!" Harris then "...brought the weapon around at hip level and fired. He didn't bring the weapon up to eye level. I saw Bill's arm going back, and I knew he had been hit." Cooper fired at Harris, and Harris went down. Cooper then brought his weapon to bear on Samuel, but did not fire. At this point, Cooper then heard two shots to his right. Samuel Weaver looked in the direction of the shots, yelled, "You son of a bitch!" and ran toward them. Cooper then realized that shots were coming at him from directly ahead, so he fired a three-round burst at the cabin. At this point he then saw Samuel Weaver running toward the cabin. When Cooper reached Degan, he placed his first two fingers on Degan carotid artery, counted two or three beats, and then his heart stopped. Shortly thereafter, Roderick and the other three marshals joined him. They then all heard a large burst of gunfire from the area around the cabin. On cross-examination, David Nevin questioned the point of throwing rocks into the gulley, asking, "You wanted to lure that dog out so you could shoot that dog, didn't you?" Nevin also pointed out that in last September's testimony, Cooper had claimed that he spotted Weaver after the dog had left him. Cooper claimed that he had gone over the events in his head and decided that Thursday's account was correct. Nevin continued the cross-examination by asking what Cooper would have done had an armed man dressed in full camouflage jumped out of the woods at him [no answer was available]. Friday, April 16 marks continued cross-examination of Cooper. >>> Continued to next message * !!! >>> * BBQed Baby Back Ribs, Waco style. -- Internet: [Matt Giwer] at [f326.n3603.z1.FIDONET.ORG] UUCP: ...!myrddin!mechanic!326!Matt.Giwer Note: Mechanic is a free gateway between FIdonet<>USENET for the TAMPA BAY,FL. metropolitan area. From: [Matt Giwer] at [f326.n3603.z1.FIDONET.ORG] (Matt Giwer) Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy Subject: Randy weaver trial 5/7 Message-ID: <[310 2 BED 63 B 8] at [mechanic.fidonet.org]> Date: Sun, 09 May 93 01:22:00 PDT Organization: FidoNet node 1:3603/326 - SPPE, St Petersburg FL Lines: 152 >>> Continued from previous message Notes: There was no coverage of protestors. RANDY WEAVER TRIAL UPDATE - 4/16(a) as received from the Idaho Survivalist Randy Weaver/Kevin Harris trial update: Day 4. Friday, April 16, 1993 was the fourth day of the trial. Synopsis: Defense attorney Gerry Spence cross-examined agent Cooper under repeated objections from prosecutor Ronald Howen. Spence moved for a mistrial but was denied. The day was marked by a caustic cross-examination of Deputy Marshal Larry Cooper by defense attorney Gerry Spence. Although Spence has not explicitly stated so, one angle of his stategy must involve destroying the credibility of agent Cooper. Cooper is the government's only eyewitness to the death of agent Degan. Spence attacked Cooper's credibility by pointing out discrepancies between Cooper's statements last September and those made in court. Cooper conceded that, "You have all these things compressed into a few seconds...It's difficult to remember what went on first." Cooper acknowledged that he carried a "9mm Colt Commando submachine gun with a silenced barrel." (I thought a Colt Commando was a revolver!) Cooper continued by stating that the federal agents had no specific plans to use the weapon when they started to kill Weaver's dog. When Spence asked how seven cartridges could be fired by Degan's M-16 rifle when Degan was apparently dead, Cooper could not say for sure that Degan did not return fire before going down. Spence continued by asking with how many agents (and to what extent) had Cooper discussed last August's events, Cooper responded, "If you're implying that we got our story together, you're wrong, counselor." Spence continued to advance the defense's version of the events: Namely, that a marshal had started the shooting by killing the Weaver's dog. Cooper disagreed. RANDY WEAVER TRIAL UPDATE - 4/16(b) as received from the Idaho Survivalist Assistant U.S. Attorney Ronald Howen repeatedly objected to Spence's virulent cross-examination of agent Cooper, arguing that the questions were repetitive and Spence was wasting time. Howen also complained that Spence was improperly using a cross-examination to advance the defense's version of the events. U.S. District Judge Edward Lodge sustained many of the objections. However, both lawyers persisted until Judge Lodge had the jury leave the room and proceded to admonish both attorneys. "I'm not going to play games with either counsel. This has been a personality problem from day 1, so start acting like professionals." Spence told the judge that, "When all the evidence is in, we'll see that ... his (agent Larry Cooper) testimony is not credible, that he was panicked and cannot remember the sequence of events." Spence continued, "We're going to find...that there is a very unlikely similarity - almost as if it had come out of a cookie cutter - between the testimony of Mr. Cooper and the other witnesses." Spence then moved for a mistrial on the grounds that Howen's repeated objections would prevent a fair trial, "We can't have a fair trial if the jury believes I'm some sort of charlatan, if the jury believes I'm bending the rules or engaging in some delaying tactic or that I'm violating court orders." Judge Lodge called the notion that his repeated sustainings of Howen's objections had somehow prejudiced the jury was "preposterous" and denied the motion for a mistrial. Lodge did tell Howen to restrict his comments when objecting. The trial resumed with the prosecution calling FBI Special Agent Greg Rampton. The prosecution's purpose was simply to introduce five weapons found in the cabin as evidence: However, the defense seized on the opportunity to further address Cooper's credibility. Defense attorney Ellison Matthews (Harris' other attorney) questioned Rampton about the dog. Rampton stated that there were no specific plans to kill the Weaver's dog without being detected. Matthews then had Rampton read a September 15, 1992 transcript in which Rampton had said that Cooper had said that the purpose of the silenced weapon was to kill the dog without being detected, if the dog chased them. Rampton then acknowledged that he believed that Cooper had said that, but he could not remember when. He then stated that, "I did not conduct the primary interview with Deputy Cooper, but I have had conversations with him since the interview was conducted." Monday, April 19, 1993 will begin the fifth day of the trial. Scheduled is the continued cross-examination of FBI agent Greg Rampton. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Note: These trial updates are summarized from reports in the _Idaho Statesman_ and the local NBC affiliate television station, KTVB Channel 7 by the Idaho Survivalist. Randy Weaver/Kevin Harris trial update: Day 5. Monday, April 19, 1993 was the fifth day of the trial. Synopsis: Government informant Kenneth Fadeley testified that Randy Weaver sold him two shotguns in violation of the National Firearms Act of 1934. U.S. District Court Judge Edward Lodge asks jurors not to hear accounts of the Waco fire because of possible influences on the Weaver/Harris case. The testimony of FBI Special Agent Greg Rampton apparently ended without further incident, as it was mentioned neither by KTVB nor the _Idaho Statesman_. The day was highlighted by the testimony of Kenneth Fadeley, who had been posing as an outlaw biker and illegal guns person named Gus Magiosono. Fadeley testified that he was acting as an informant for the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms in his dealings with Randy Weaver. Fadeley began by stating that he had met Weaver in 1987 at an Aryan Nations summer conference in Hayden Lake, Idaho. The two then met again October 11, 1989 (note the huge separation in time) at a restaurant in Sandpoint, Idaho, to begin a weapons transaction. He stated that Weaver had said, "He felt like he (Weaver) was being prepared to do something dangerous for the White cause." The two later met October 24, 1989 behind the restaurant and later went to a city park to make the sale. During this second meeting, Fadeley was wearing a small recording device to tape the conversation. Weaver allegedly showed him an H&R 12- gauge shotgun with a 13-inch barrel and an overall length of 19.25 inches. He additionally showed a Remington 12-gauge shotgun with a 12.75-inch barrel and an overall length of 24.5 inches (NFA requires minimums of 18 inches for barrel length and an overall length of 26 inches). On tape, Weaver is reported to have said that he could perform better work once his machine shop is set up. The two then discuss the possibility of future sales. Fadeley then counts out three hundred dollars for the two guns and promises the balance of one-hundred fifty dollars when they next meet. (Note that the ATF could have simply arrested him here. Why did they wait until January 1991 - over a year later - to arrest him? This is not explained). >>> Continued to next message * !!! >>> * BBQed Baby Back Ribs, Waco style. -- Internet: [Matt Giwer] at [f326.n3603.z1.FIDONET.ORG] UUCP: ...!myrddin!mechanic!326!Matt.Giwer Note: Mechanic is a free gateway between FIdonet<>USENET for the TAMPA BAY,FL. metropolitan area. From: [Matt Giwer] at [f326.n3603.z1.FIDONET.ORG] (Matt Giwer) Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy Subject: Randy weaver trial 6/7 Message-ID: <[311 2 BED 63 B 9] at [mechanic.fidonet.org]> Date: Sun, 09 May 93 01:22:00 PDT Organization: FidoNet node 1:3603/326 - SPPE, St Petersburg FL Lines: 161 >>> Continued from previous message The next meeting took place on Nov 30, 1989. Fadeley stated that his "source" had only come up with one hundred dollars instead of the one-hundred fifty he'd promised. At this point, Weaver suspected he was dealing with an informant, "I had a guy in Spokane tell me you were bad." Fadeley managed to convince Weaver otherwise. The _Idaho Statesman_ states explicitly that three tapes were made of conversations with Randy Weaver. Thus, each of these meetings must have been recorded. However, the _Statesman_ also reported that a tape of a telephone conversation involving Vicki Weaver (Randy Weaver's wife) was played to the court. There must have also been phone taps. These tapes were played to the court via both headphones and loudspeakers under the objections of Gerry Spence, Weaver's attorney. Spence said to a KTVB reporter that he wanted to make sure that the government proved its case, "...if it has a case at all..." according to the rules. Randy Weaver tore off his headphones and wept when he heard his wife's voice on the tape. U.S. District Court Judge Edward Lodge asked jurors not to hear accounts of the Waco fire because of possible influences on the Weaver/Harris case. Exactly how such information could affect this trial is not explained. Other notes: Sunday evening there was a report on KTVB concerning Kevin Harris. Unnamed agents within the FBI admit that they are surprised that Kevin Harris is still alive. First, they were surprised that he survived the initial gunshot wound(s) sustained in the initial firefight at the Y-junction. Later, when Randy Weaver was struck by sniper fire the sniper had reported that Harris had been struck (not Weaver). Finally, there was a report that the FBI agent who killed Vicki Weaver believed he was aiming at Kevin Harris instead. (This is what was reported). Critics are charging that the FBI was blatantly trying to eliminate the only non-government witness to the deaths of Samuel Weaver and Deputy Marshal William Degan. Some local people believe that Harris's survival is simply due to divine intervention. Tuesday, April 20, 1993 will be the sixth day of the trial. Kenneth Fadeley's testimony is scheduled to continue. ***Warrant Invalid, say Weaver's Lawyers*** ***Suspect given wrong date, says clerk*** [from the Seattle Times, April 23, 1993] Firearms - Politics Associated Press BOISE, Idaho - The defense in the murder-conspiracy trial of Randy Weaver and Kevin Harris continues to hammer away at the criminal charges that led to a bloody shootout and an 11-day siege at Weaver's Idaho cabin. The Aug. 21 shootout started when federal officers were trying to arrest Weaver on a weapons charge and charge that he failed to appear in court. One federal marshal died in that shootout. In the eight day of trial yesterday in U.S. District Court here, defense attorneys continued to question the validity of the failure-to- appear count. Weaver and Harris are accused of murdering Deputy Marshal William Degan, Quincy, Mass., in the initial shootout. Weaver's son, Samuel, 14, also died in that firefight, and Vicki Weaver, 42, was killed by a sniper the next day. A court clerk testified he advised U.S. District Judge Harold Ryan that Weaver was given the wrong court date, before Ryan issued a warrant for Weaver's failure to appear. But under further questioning by Prosecutor Ronald Howen, clerk Ronald Haberman was less definite. "I'm saying I communicated that to judge Ryan," Haberman told Howen. "But I'm not sure when or how." Ryan signed the warrant that set in motion events leading to the violent confrontation. Earlier, federal probation officer Karl Richins admitted that while court officials advised him the Weaver should appear for trial on Feb. 20, 1991, he mistakenly told Weaver the date was March 20, 1991. The government obtained a Feb. 20, 1991, fugitive warrant for Weaver. But late in the day, prosecutors used the testimony of U.S. Attorney Maurice Ellsworth to support their claim that the Weavers had long conspired to force an armed confrontation with federal agents. Ellsworth quoted a letter sent to him just before the trial was scheduled and signed by Weaver's wife saying, "Whether we live or whether we die, we will not bow to your evil commandments." He turned the letter over to federal investigators. But the investigating marshal, William Mays, said he told Ellsworth he did not find the letter threatening. Spence said Weaver's wife was merely complaining about the unfair treatment of her husband. And he objected tao the prosecution's attempt to link a letter from Vicki Weaver to her husband. Note: These trial updates are summarized from reports in the _Idaho Statesman_ and the local NBC affiliate television station, KTVB Channel * b* th* Idaho_Survivalist. Randy Weaver/Kevin Harris trial update: Day 6. Tuesday, April 20, 1993 was the sixth day of the trial. Synopsis: Government informant Kenneth Fadeley continued his testimony that Randy Weaver sold him two illegal shotguns in 1989. Fadeley denied defense arguments that Weaver was entrapped. Weaver's defense attorney Gerry Spence moved twice for mistrials and was denied both times. Aryan Nations leader Richard Butler has now been subpoenaed to testify at the trial. Defense attorney Charles Peterson continued the cross-examination of Kenneth Fadeley today, arguing that Fadeley had entrapped Randy Weaver. Fadeley had been posing as an illegal arms merchant named Gus Magisono. Fadeley flatly denied the entrapment, "I didn't entice Randy Weaver, sir." Fadeley again stated that he had met Weaver at a series of Aryan Nations conferences held in July 1986, July 1987, and July, 1989. A point of contention arose around the decision to not tape the October 11, 1989 meeting between Fadeley and Weaver at Connie's Restaurant in Sandpoint, Idaho. Fadeley simply said that BATF agent Herb Byerly, who had been supervising Fadeley's undercover work, had declined to tape the meeting. The defense saw things differently, "The reason that you didn't tape any of those meetings is you didn't want a permanent record of the offers you made to my client, right?" Fadeley responded, "No, that's not correct." At this point, defense attorney Gerry Spence moved to have Fadeley's testimony stricken from the record after Fadeley had admitted that he thought he would receive payment for his undercover work only if Weaver was convicted. District Judge Edward Lodge denied the motion. BATF agent Herb Byerly then took the stand. He stated that any money Fadeley would receive would have nothing to do with the outcome of the trial. Byerly also denied entrapping Weaver. Byerly did acknowledge that he and another [unnamed as yet] ATF agent had met with Weaver about the case and asked him on June 12, 1990 about becoming an informer against certain unnamed parties within the Aryan Nations. The cross-examination of BATF agent Herb Byerly is scheduled to resume Wednesday, April 21, 1993. Related stories: Defense attorney Gerry Spence moved twice for a mistrial. His first motion was based on the argument that the jury had been prejudiced by repeated references to racist groups and the federal Witness Protection Program. Spence argued that a federal informant's repeated reference to a racist group to which Randy Weaver did not belong made it impossible for him to have a fair trial, "My sad observation is that this case ought not to become a with hunt." >>> Continued to next message * !!! >>> * BBQed Baby Back Ribs, Waco style. -- Internet: [Matt Giwer] at [f326.n3603.z1.FIDONET.ORG] UUCP: ...!myrddin!mechanic!326!Matt.Giwer Note: Mechanic is a free gateway between FIdonet<>USENET for the TAMPA BAY,FL. metropolitan area. From: [Matt Giwer] at [f326.n3603.z1.FIDONET.ORG] (Matt Giwer) Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy Subject: Randy weaver trial 7/7 Message-ID: <[312 2 BED 63 BB] at [mechanic.fidonet.org]> Date: Sun, 09 May 93 01:22:00 PDT Organization: FidoNet node 1:3603/326 - SPPE, St Petersburg FL Lines: 141 >>> Continued from previous message In response to this, Asst. U.S. Attorney Kim Linquist argued that Weaver's and Harris's beliefs were entirely relevant because they showed a motivation for confrontation with the federal government. Lodge denied the motion for a mistrial. Spence moved again for a mistrial later in the day. This time he argued that a question from Asst. U.S. Attorney Ronald Howen to a federal informant about possibly entering the Witness Protection Program unfairly characterized Weaver as dangerous. Lodge denied this second motion for a mistrial as well. In another related story, Aryan Nations leader Richard Butler was formally subpoenaed in Hayden Lake, Idaho, to testify in the trial of Randy Weaver. Prosecutors allege that Weaver attended several Aryan Nations conferences and associated with several members of the group. The defense countered by arguing that Weaver is a white separatist, not a white supremacist, and was not a member of the Aryan Nation's violent faction, known as The Order. Upon receiving his subpoena, Butler stated that Weaver is being unfairly persecuted because of his white separatist views and that, "He wanted to be left alone. Any sane jury is going to see that this is a government-paid prosecution [sic - he probably meant persecution. The text is from the Statesman] of an individual white man." At a news conference kicking off the Aryan Youth Assembly, leaders of the Aryan Nations-Church of Jesus Christ Christian denied that they were stockpiling arms at the northern Idaho compound. They then showed off a special pile of paper mache human arms, complete with a sign reading, "Arms Stockpile." Aryan Nations Chief of Staff Carl Franklin did state that members are encouraged to exercise their rights to keep and bear arms, and many members collect and carry weapons. He also stated that two members arrested on concealed carry charges were no threat to anyone; they had simply forgotten to remove their holsters before leaving the compound. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Note: These trial updates are summarized from reports in the _Idaho Statesman_ and the local NBC affiliate television station, KTVB Channel 7 by the Idaho_Survivalist Randy Weaver/Kevin Harris trial update: Day 7. Wednesday, April 21, 1993 was the seventh day of the trial. Synopsis: Tapes were played today focusing on Weaver's agreement to dispose of his firearms as condition of his 1991 release from custody. Defense Attorney Charles Peterson moved for a mistrial on the grounds that references to white supremacist's foiled 1990 plot to bomb a gay nightclub had prejudiced the jury. U.S. District Judge Edward Lodge denied the motion. The trial was highlighted by a description of Randy Weaver's January 17, 1991 arrest near his home in northern Idaho by a team of BATF agents. BATF Special Agent Lance Hart and BATF Special Agent Barbara Anderson posed as a couple with a broken down pickup truck. The truck was strategically located so as to block the one-lane bridge near the Weaver's home. When Randy Weaver and his wife, Vicki Weaver, stopped to help, they were swarmed by agents Hart, Anderson, as well as 3 additional ATF agents and Boundary County Sheriff Bruce Whittaker. The latter four were hiding in the back of the pickup truck inside a camper shell. An unnamed agent testified that Weaver lunged for the agent's pistol during the arrest, and also went for his own gun during an ensuing struggle. ATF agents were able to subdue him without a shot being fired and proceded to inform him that he was under arrest for federal weapons charges: Specifically, the sale of two sawed-off shotguns. They then confiscated [at least they're being honest for once - if Randy Weaver is later found innocent his guns will most likely remain "confiscated"] a .22-caliber Beretta from Randy Weaver and a .38 revolver from Vicki. She was not arrested and the agents returned her firearm. As conditions of pretrial release, then-Magistrate Stephen Myers told Randy Weaver to stay in northern Idaho, not drink excessively, use drugs, or possess firearms. A tape was then played in which Weaver agreed to these terms, "I'll get rid of them [the guns]," Weaver said. The prosecution then noted that immediately after the standoff they confiscated [see above for refreshing honesty] at least 14 rifles, shotguns, and pistols from the cabin. The prosecution's strategy is obviously to depict Weaver as someone who flagrantly violates both his own promises as well as federal law. Sparks flew as defense attorney Charles Peterson moved for a mistrial, essentially on the same grounds that Gerry Spence had used the previous day. Peterson argued that references to a white supremacist group 1990 intentions to bomb a gay nightclub in Seattle had prejudiced the jury against Weaver. This marked the fourth(!) motion for a mistrial in the seven days of the trial. U.S. District Court Judge Edward Lodge remarked, "I don't need any more argument because it's absolutely absurd. The motion for a mistrial is denied." Prosecution testimony is slated to continue as the eighth day of the trial begins on Thursday, April 22, 1993. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Note: These trial updates are summarized from reports in the _Idaho Statesman_ and the local NBC affiliate television station, KTVB Channel * b* th* Idaho_Survivalist. Randy Weaver/Kevin Harris trial update: Day 6. Tuesday, April 20, 1993 was the sixth day of the trial. Synopsis: Government informant Kenneth Fadeley continued his testimony that Randy Weaver sold him two illegal shotguns in 1989. Fadeley denied defense arguments that Weaver was entrapped. Weaver's defense attorney Gerry Spence moved twice for mistrials and was denied both times. Aryan Nations leader Richard Butler has now been subpoenaed to testify at the trial. Defense attorney Charles Peterson continued the cross-examination of Kenneth Fadeley today, arguing that Fadeley had entrapped Randy Weaver. Fadeley had been posing as an illegal arms merchant named Gus Magisono. Fadeley flatly denied the entrapment, "I didn't entice Randy Weaver, sir." Fadeley again stated that he had met Weaver at a series of Aryan Nations conferences held in July 1986, July 1987, and July, 1989. A point of contention arose around the decision to not tape the October 11, 1989 meeting between Fadeley and Weaver at Connie's Restaurant in Sandpoint, Idaho. Fadeley simply said that BATF agent Herb Byerly, who had been supervising Fadeley's undercover work, had declined to tape the meeting. The defense saw things differently, "The reason that you didn't tape any of those meetings is you didn't want a permanent record of the offers you made to my client, right?" Fadeley responded, "No, that's not correct." At this point, defense attorney Gerry Spence moved to have Fadeley's * !!! >>> * BBQed Baby Back Ribs, Waco style. -- Internet: [Matt Giwer] at [f326.n3603.z1.FIDONET.ORG] UUCP: ...!myrddin!mechanic!326!Matt.Giwer Note: Mechanic is a free gateway between FIdonet<>USENET for the TAMPA BAY,FL. metropolitan area.