From: [REDACTED] at [hprnd.rose.hp.com] (Steve Kao) Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns Subject: Re: A probable FAQ Date: 25 Oct 1993 21:33:35 GMT BAD MEDICINE KILLS MORE PEOPLE THAN ARE MURDERED? ------------------------------------------------- There have been recent postings on how the CDC (Center for Disease Control) has (apparently) added firearms to the "diseases" list. From what I have read, it seems like pure HCBH (or whatever) propaganda. Could it be that bad doctors and bad hospitals are more of a killer than forearms? A recent (31-dec-89) CNN report on medicine stated that "surgical excursions" killed more people than firearms in 1988. A "surgical excursion" is when something happens that SHOULD not and that could have been prevented. I.e., this is NOT an unexpected reaction to penicillin but: the wrong medicine was given, the physician made a mistake, the blood given was the wrong type and so. I'm REALLY researching this one (well, CDC?), and what I have so far: Homicides per 100,000 in 1987 ........................ 8.9 "Symptoms, signs, ill-defined conditions" in 1987 .... 13.7 The cause of deaths for 1987 is where I got the "Symptoms, signs, ill-defined conditions" category. All the other medical terms were such things as meningitis, viral hepatitis, 8 categroies of heart disease, ulcers, hernias, and so on, and then the strangely named "Symptoms, signs, ill-defined conditions". My research librarian says it covers the "doctors or hospitals made a boo-boo" category. I'm still researching, but these facts seem solid enough to post now. SOURCE: The World Almanac Consumer Information Series, 1990. Information in the rest of this posting comes from: Report to the Nation on Crime and Justice, Second Edition, U.S. Department of Justice, Bureau of Justice Statistics, NCJ-105506, March 1988. HOW DO PEOPLE PROTECT THEMSELVES FROM CRIME? -------------------------------------------- There has been debate of how much (if any!?) crime has been prevented by owning a firearm. The following figures are based on the BJS National Crime Survey, 1979-85, and are reported as follows. Note that only victims reporting sucessful prevention are reported (i.e., no homicide figures). The percent figure is the percentage of the victimizations that were PREVENTED. A weapon was used or brandished ... 3% in 1,206,755 rapes -----> 36,202 A weapon was used or brandished ... 4% in 8,484,516 robberies -> 339,380 A weapon was used or brandished ... 4% in 36,269,845 assaults --> 1,450,793 --------- 1,826,375 Seems to me that 1.8 million violent victimizations speak pretty highly of weapons use and brandishing. VICTIM-OFFENDER RELATIONSHIP FOR HOMICIDES, ASSAULTS, ROBBERIES --------------------------------------------------------------- Again, most murder victims are NOT relatives!! Homicide Robbery Assault -------- ------- ------- Strangers 18% 75% 51% Acquaintance 39% 17% 35% Relative 18% 4% 4% Unknown 26% 4% 4% WEAPONS INVOLVED IN CRIME ------------------------- For 1985, for robbery and assaults, the following is how many incidents involved a firearm and how many involved a knife. Robbery Assault ------- ------- Firearm 23% 12% Knife 21% 10% What is MOST interesting is that in robbery and assaults, a gun was ACTUALLY fired and hit the victim ONLY 4% of the time in all incidents in 1985! Yet victims were actually stabbed in 10% in the knives incidents. I.e., for robbery and assaults, it will be about even the number of times a gun is used or a knife is used, yet if a knife is used, you will be TWICE as likely to be stabbed as to be shot. A quote from page 21: "When guns are present victims are less likely to be injured than if the offender is armed with a knife or other weapon because guns are often used to coerce the victim into compliance, according to the NCS". INTERESTING QUOTES ------------------ Page 14: "The percentage of households touched by crime has declined over the past 10 years ... from 32% of households [touched by crime] to 25% of all households ... personal larceny from 16% to 12%, burglary from 8% to 5%. Page 15: A beautiful picture (of a graph) showing the decline in per capita homcides since 1980. For those that haven't plotted the stats in STATISTICS1-3, you can see it right here. FUTURE ------ I'm still constructing a large database to try and use for disputing the "gun control reduces gun crime" assertion. --- end of statistics 4 --- ------Me and my dyslexic keyboard---------------------------------------------- Phil Ronzone Manager Secure UNIX [p k r] at [sgi.COM] {decwrl,sun}!sgi!pkr Silicon Graphics, Inc. "I never vote, it only encourages 'em ..." -----In honor of Minas, no spell checker was run on this posting---------------