From: [c d t] at [sw.stratus.com] (C. D. Tavares)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns
Subject: Re: Sources of weapons used in crimes
Date: 15 Jun 1993 20:51:35 GMT

In article <[1--0--3] at [tivoli.UUCP]>, [m 5] at [tivoli.UUCP] (Mike McNally) writes:
> As part of a lively e-mail discussion concerning gun control, the
> subject of how and where gunes used in crime are obtained arose.  It
> was put to me that "many, if not most" guns used in crimes are stolen
> from law-abiding citizens.  I suspect this isn't the case, but I
> haven't ready access to any information to support my contention.
> Help.

I guess the answer depends on whether you include thefts from the police
and military in that category...

====

Gun Week, October 9, 1992:
"The BATF surveyed 471 career criminals in its recently released (1992)
"Protecting America, Yes" study and found that only 7% of guns used in
violent crimes are purchased from retail dealers. The study found that
criminals get 37% of their guns on the street, 34% through criminal
acts, 8% from family members and 6% at gun shows and flea markets."

====

In November, 1991, someone broke into the armory of the Charolette PD. 
They walked off with $20K worth of weapons and $10K of ammo.

In Aurora IL a couple of years ago something like 1400 firearms were
stolen from the police armory.  These were guns originally confiscated
from the public.

I seem to remember a story about the same time of ~20k handguns
missing from the Chicago evidence rooms.

====

Illegal home production of handguns is already common; a Bureau of Alcohol,
Tobacco, and Firearms study found that one-fifth of the guns seized by the
police in Washington, D.C., were homemade.  [BATF, Analysis of Operation CUE
(Concentrated Urban Enforcement), interim report (Washington D.C.:
February 15, 1977), pp. 133-34, cited in Paul Blackman and Richard Gardiner,
Flaws in the Current and Proposed Uniform Crime Reporting Program
Regarding Homicide and Weapons Use in Violent Crime, paper presented
at 38th Annual Meeting of the American Society of Criminology; Atlanta]

====

Scripps Howard News Service  [from the Seattle Times, April 12, 1993]:

WASHINGTON - The Pentagon is considering importing a 9-millimeter
Swedish handgun bullet for all military services that can pierce three
times the thickness of body armor worn by police in the United States.

Federal, state and local law-enforcement officials - from the U.S.
attorney general's office to chiefs of police - fear the powerful bullet
will reach the hands of criminals.

If that occurs, they say, police officers face certain death because no
body armor currently available can stop the steel-jacketed bullet now
being tested by the Army.

Repeated congressional and internal Department of Defense audits have
found problems in the loss of military ammunition - either from theft
from armories or by military personnel illegally selling them.

====

Roughly 25% of the cops who are shot are shot with their own gun.
Another 10% are shot with their partner's gun.

Maybe somebody on t.p.g can tell you the story about the gun thefts
from the VA UPS depot.  I don't have anything saved on that.
-- 

[c d t] at [rocket.sw.stratus.com]   --If you believe that I speak for my company,
OR [c d t] at [vos.stratus.com]        write today for my special Investors' Packet...

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Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns
From: [m--et--o] at [brtph126.bnr.ca] (Myron Petro P030)
Subject: Re: Sources of weapons used in crimes
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1993 13:10:27 GMT


 Mike McNally wrote:
> It was put to me that "many, if not most" guns used in crimes are stolen
>from law-abiding citizens.  I suspect this isn't the case, but I
>haven't ready access to any information to support my contention.
>Help.


  Well Mike in the past 2 years here in North Carolina:

  The Charlotte PD training academy had 20k worth of firearms and 10k 
  worth of ammo stolen. The paper didn't say but I suspect some were 
  full auto weapons.

  Soldiers on manuvers were getting hijacked for their M16's and 9mm's
  the hijackers knew that the soldiers on training exercises had no live
  ammo.  They charged some people in this case but I have not heard of any
  trial and the arms were not recovered. This had been happening for quite a 
  while before they caught someone.

  Soldiers from Fort Brag brought back full auto AK47's from Iraq and were
  selling them on the street. Again they caught these guys but there isn't 
  any count of how many they brought back that are still on the street.

  An SBI (state bureau of investigation) agent had one of her guns stolen
  by a nephew and sold to a kid at school. 
 

  Also on America's Most Wanted a Flordia cop stole a confiscated UZI 
  (that he was supposed to destroy) it turned up later at a crime scene
  again no telling how many other guns that are off the books as destroyed
  that this guy put back on the street.

  On American detective a drug dealer was caught with a concealed pistol
  (a S&W 4006 ) stolen from the Ca. Highway patrol.


   These are just a few cases. Are all of the guns comming from the police
  and Military? No, I can also name a few friends that have had some guns 
  stolen.  
    Will a total guns ban for civilians stop the guns on the street?  No!!
  there are enough cases now where they are being stolen from the military and 
  police. These cases would only increase and more guns would be smuggled in.
    I'm sure other people can add to this list. 

 
        Myron Petro
	NRA, USPSA
        DVC y'all
	**************************************************************************
	 The opinions included in this post are my sole responsibility.
	 And are protected by the First Amendment and guarnteed by the 
	 Second Amendment.