From: [e--s] at [michael.apple.com] (E. Michael Smith) Newsgroups: rec.guns Subject: Re: search of cars... mobile homes Date: 14 Oct 1993 20:46:07 -0400 In article <[1993 Oct 11 181138 17640] at [chpc.org]> [r--ud--e] at [chpc.org] (Rob Boudrie) writes: ##: Now then, the question does come up as to how to act during a stop by an ##: officer. Do you tell him where it is or do you let him ask? Is there ##: any particular place it should or shouldn't be? Is there any particular # #It shouldn't be in a place where the cop will find it on his/her own. If #that happens expect to be charged with some felony to justify the force the #cop may use against you. Watch the show 'COPS' and be prepared to grieve for the death of personal liberty... The above statement agrees strongly with the 'real life cop stories' as shown on that TV show... I saw a show a couple of days ago. They pulled over a car load of drunks. Driver can't find his wallet and says he thinks it is in the trunk. While the driver is looking in the trunk, the cops spot an empty HOLSTER in the trunk. Driver is tackled and shackled. They found some magazines in a ladies purse in the front, and eventually found a gun in the trunk, unloaded. They then breathalize the guy and he isn't drunk. They then moralized for several minutes about how they couldn't bust the guy because he wasn't over the alcohol limit and the gun wasn't loaded and how they needed tougher gun laws so folks couldn't 'get away with this kind of crime' and how horrible it was that the had to 'let him go'. So, in their eyes, being under the legal limit of alcohol and having and unloaded gun locked up in the trunk should be criminal acts. It is true that they were leaving an area where shots had been reported fired, and one of the officers sniffed the gun and claimed it had been 'recently fired'. But: I don't know about your guns, but mine smell of powder for several days after I've gone shooting... Basically they have a very weak circumstantial evidence case (verging on unfounded suspicion) that someone in the car might have maybe done something wrong, and were falling all over themselves to claim how horribly lax the law was that they couldn't bust the guy just because they had no evidence... They repeatedly said 'He was going for that gun!' after they found the gun... Now, one small detail, the guy was pawing around ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE TRUNK from where the gun was found. I have to believe that, had the gun been loaded, the guy would have been sent up the river for a long stay... The fact that the gun was on the other side of the trunk would not have mattered. Moral of story: If you are likely to get near the gun, or the cop is likely to to SEE ANYTHING GUN RELATED, I'd suggest informing the officer early that you have the gun... I could very easily see myself in the scenario: Gone shooting the day before, unloaded gun locked in trunk. Left wallet in jacket I tossed in trunk. Had a couple of beers with some friends, but was careful to stay under the drunk limit. On my way home, get pulled over for being in the wrong place at the wrong time when some whacko did some noise making. I get a free trip to the concrete hotel... In another pictured stop, they pulled over a black (Caddy?) because it had a faintly tinted cover over the licence plate. The claim was that this obscured the plate. Some seedy looking guys get out of the car. No drivers licence. Cop asks permission to search the car, they decline. A dog is brought in to sniff. He signals (something), giving probable cause. They find seeds in front and back, a 'push wire', and rolling papers; but no dope. And a pistol is found in the front, along with ammo in a box. This is used as probable cause to search the trunk. A shotgun is found that has been reported stolen. They driver claims to have bought it on the street. Under questioning he admits that the $50 he paid for it made him think it was likely stolen. Here we have a case of some seedy folks who most likey DID smoke grass from time to time (like our President, buy maybe they actually inhaled a bit 8-), but were not 'under the influence' while driving. The fancy car MIGHT even indicate a tendency to illegal income. Heck, they MIGHT have even stolen the shotgun. They were busted for driving without a licence, paraphanalia possesion, and recieving stolen property. I don't know what a 'push wire' is, but it sounded like a straight piece of wire. The idea that I could be busted because I had a chunk of wire, some paper, a friend drops some seeds off his boots in my carpet, and someone sold me a hot gun, does not make my day... Yeah, most likely the scum bags were 'dirty', but the standard of evidence was awful weak... ## As for telling the officer you have it or waiting until/if the ##officer asks you - the general rule of thumb is "answer only the questions ##asked and volunteer nothing" - If he/she doesn't ask, don't answer, just # #...unless a situation arises where discovery by the officer is imminent... Absolutely. Don't let the officer find out on his own. You will be eating dirt in 'cuffs maybe with a few bruises, while they try to find a reason to justify having done it... -- E. Michael Smith [e--s] at [apple.COM] I am not responsible nor is anyone else. Everything is disclaimed. You can get anything you want on Alice's NNTP. You can get anything you want on Alice's NNTP. Telnet over, it's a simple hack. Port one-nineteen is where it's at. and you can get anything you want on Alice's NNTP.