Date:     Wed, 6 Jul 1994 22:38:41 -0500
Sender: COMICS Discussion List <[COMICS L] at [UNLVM.UNL.EDU]>
Subject:  COMICS-L Digest - 6 Jul 1994 - Special issue

There are 2 messages totalling 349 lines in this issue.

Topics in this special issue:

  1. ChicagoCon Saturday Update (part 1)
  2. ChicagoCon Saturday Update (part 2)

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Date:    Wed, 6 Jul 1994 22:34:51 CDT
From:    michael kelly <[m--el--y] at [happy.helios.nd.edu]>
Subject: ChicagoCon Saturday Update (part 1)


(I present Part 1 of Saturday This is all I saved before my newsreader
choked! Part two will come later today.)

ChicagoCon, 2 July 1994 (Saturday) Update

I'm one of those people who wakes up when the sun does. I was rather
exhausted from a busy week, so I ignored the sun and slept for a few
more hours.

10 am: After eating the last of my vegetarian chocolate cake (recipe
available on request) for breakfast, I nip outside to get to the
Convention center. (Careful scouting by Greg Morrow and Chris Mako
revealed that it is quicker to go outside to get to the con from
the Sofitel than it is to use the skyway.)

I am shocked to find that it is about 60 F and cloudy outside, especially
since the hotel went to all the trouble to tell us that it would be 90 F
and sunny.

Once at the con, I take the time to run through the dealer's area. This
takes me abiout 30 minutes. I'm not looking for single issues. I keep my
eyes open for good deals on collections (TPBs and hardcovers) and a few
posters and reference works I would like.

I end up picking up the 1972 Wonder Woman/Gloria Steinhem hardcover from
Atlas comics (Thanks Sidne!). I also score a "Superheroes of the Silver
Age" for $7 from a nice older gentleman. I see some good values on other
books, but I own them already. :P

I had no luck in tracking down the Green Hornet hardcover, the first
Black Orchid poster, or the "From A to Zippy collection." I also cannot
find the "Wonder Woman from the 40s to the 70s" book, although Sidne
confirms that it exists.

10:50 am: I do a quick fly-by of the publishers. Somehow I miss Jeff
Smith, Colleen Doran and Vampirella. The Marvel gala is pretty impressive,
and the kids seem to love having their pictures taken with Magneto. I do
a very quick buzz through the DC area, pausing only to drop off the
"Vertigo Rejection Letter" at the Vertigo booth. Guy Davis gives me a
puzzled look as I ask him to make sure Shelly Roeberg sees it.

I then hit the second half of artist's alley. Leiber and Shoulz were there
and both seem very excited about their work. Their excitement made for
a good presence, as I could see some younger fans being attracted by their
attitude. Other creators (Like Rick Veitch) seemed tired and worn-out in
comparison. Steve gave me a wonderful sketch of you-know-who, with a
certain ten-tentacled avenger slinking around in the background. I bought
two issues of a friends' comic (about a Ph.D. physicist!) that looks
really good, but I haven't had the time to read them yet.

I spend some more time slinking around artist's alley, but don't see too
many people I want to talk to. I got the impression that a small coffee/
pastry/bagel stand would be a big hit in the alley.

12 noon: I have decided that I must see Mickey Spillane and Max Allan
Collins. What I don't know is that their next panel is really a sales
pitch by Technocomix(tm). Technocomix is a company being formed by the
creators of the Sci-Fi Network. The concept is that they will publish
two-three comic series and then push the idea into the multimedia age.
Forget trading cards, Technocomix(tm) wants TV shows, interactive games,
CD ROM, roller coasters, you name it.

My impression: The President of the company spent too much time on the
sales pitch. It was painfully obvious that they are still trying to
secure investors (or at least one big one, like Disney) and didn't
realize that a one-hour panel at ChicagoCon is not the place to do it.
Mickey and Max traded some stories, but it was pretty clear that most
of the audience was unfamiliar with their work.

1 pm: One of the best seminars: "Days of Gold" with Julie Schwartz,
Shelly Moldoff, Gil Kane, hosted by Mike Gold. This was a fascinating
discussion between three living giants of comics. I don't know where to
begin.

There was no small amount of nostalgia present in their discussions.
Julie was the obvious storyteller of the lot. Shelly was more terse in
his statements, preferring to simply make his point and sit back. Gil
Kane would argue with himself if no one else was there :)

Julie and Shelly seemed to miss the old days of comics: the brilliant
covers, the simpler style, the different set of ethics for heroes. I
think it was Julie who said (about the cover to Action #1) "It really
looked as if this man could lift an automobile with both hands. When I
see these muscle-bound behemoths in today's comics, I wonder why they
don't have a car under each arm!"

At one point when Shelly mentioned how he missed the more direct, simple
style of artwork, I clapped in approval. I was the only one (!). Mike
Gold and Julie seemed to appreciate my vote of support. At this point,
Gil Kane stepped in and reminded us all that in the early days all the
comic artists were failed artists from other careers (adverts, Post
sketches, etc.) and how there really has been a maturing of the field.

Gil wandered up and down the history of comics, but he touched on a
number of fascinating points. He mentioned how the trend of swiping/
copying artistic styles has been around forever. He pointed to this
(as he saw it) natural phenominon leads to the homogenization of
the artist side of the field. He wondered alloud "where are the artistic
(geniuses) of today". (I wish I could remember his exact words, because
he made an explicit point that he had abandonned the term genius for
something else, maybe Glenn or Greg remembers?)

I wanted to make a point that there *are*, IMHO, superstar artistic
ground-breakers in comic art, but that they generally do not work
for one of the big houses. People like Motter (who I *never* saw at the
con), Buckingham, Sienkiewicz, McKean, et al. I suppose I could also
label these guys as "slow" or "non-monthly" artists.

2 pm: Superteams: Then and Now. This was actually more like "Superteams:
Then". Julie and Shelly stayed, and were joined by Chris Claremont, Jim
Shooter, and John Romita Jr. Gerard Jones canceled when he heard I was
going to ask "Did superteams then suck as much as they do now?"

This was a big session of collective back-patting for the glory days
of X-Men. Julie gave us some insight into the make-up of the early JLA.
He explained that the company didn't put Superman or Batman on the cover
because they didn't want to over-expose them. He also explained that he
liked to only have one new member join every five months or so. (This was
to help build a following for the new character.)

Shooter asked Schwartz man questions relating to using comic content to
sell books: "Why not overexpose?" "Why not have team-ups every issue?"
It wasn't clear to me if he was being facetious or not. I suppose I
should have asked.

Claremont seemed rather saddened by his departure from the Xbooks, it
almost seemed like he wanted to say the current hysteria is not entirely
his fault. Romita Jr. teased Shooter and Claremont about their time
together at Marvel. John made one small point that I heard echoed over
and over again by other artists at the con (Moldoff, Jill Thompson, among
others). He mentioned how he really enjoyed working with a good writer, and
that he never felt the desire to do both jobs. He *liked* being "the
artist."

There was some discussion about how/why characters get spun-off. Claremont
mentioned that he fought it for a long time, since he knew he didn't
have the time to write 20 books a month. All-in-all, this was an
interesting panel, but there wasn't enough "current" super-team for
my tastes.

This is the end of the first half of Saturday...This has gotten too
long already!


Saturday, 2 July 1994 ChicagoCon Update (part 2)

3 pm: Comics Noir Panel with Frank Miller, Mickey Spillane, Harlan Ellison,
and Max Allan Collins. (there may have been someone else, but my mind is
blanking.)  Oh yes, I remember, it was Collins partner from Ms. Tree. He
said *very* little, instead prefering to listen to the others.

This was a strange panel. Max spent too much time trying to introduce
the audience to the word "noir." Ellison tried to start a pissing contest
with Spillane. (The two met here for the first time.)  Spillane's easy
going nature was quite disarming to HE, who eventually settled down
and turned the panel into a light-hearted discussion group.

There was not much talk about the "noir" genre, instead talk ranged
from the various Hollywood experiences. Miller made a few terse
remarks, but was clearly disappointed with his experiences. HE
expressed bitterness, but explained how he felt it was important not
to become trapped into being "only" a screenwriter, but to be primarily
known as a writer from some other field in order to keep respect in
Tinseltown. Mickey explained that he had great fun in Hollywood, but
that it was because of his serving as executive producer. He joked
that his film was terrible, and made no money, but that he enjoyed
it.

Some stories were exchanged between HE and MS. Mickey leaned
towards good-natured joking, which, IMHO, was good for Ellison.
Harlan managed to keep his tales on the lighter side. HE seemed to
actually relax and enjoy the atmosphere. Miller appreciated Spillane's
presence and was trying to get the audience to share it. Frank did
try to start his "CCA/Bill Gaines" rant which has been discussed on
rac, but didn't get far. I was relieved.

There was one moment when Greg Morrow tried to address Ellison's
point that there is a serious lack of good writers in comics. Elmo
suggested that Harlan write some. HE replied: "Have you been living
on the moon?" (Harlan is allowing some of his work to be *adapted*
but is writing nothing new. Apparantly he doesn't see a difference)

4 pm: I duck back to the room to drop off some things and check on the
address for Mr. Beef. This will become important later.

5 pm: I get back to the Rosemont Convention center in time for the
Harlan Ellison fete. Particpating are: Joe Michael Straczinski,
Maggie Thompson, Peter David, Julie Schwartz and surprise guest
Neil Gaiman. I remember hearing that Neil would make an appearance
at this event, but it had completely slipped my mind.

Neil arrived while PAD was ranting how "that bastard Gaiman -he
likes *everybody*". This was very funny, as Neil crept up behind
PAD. The whole thing looked *very* scripted, but it was funny
nonetheless. Neil made a gift of the promotional Sandman statue
(as seen at the retailers con and the Vertigo booth.)

Harlan suggested they play "The Meanest Thing I Ever Did...".
Despite Neil's protests that while this may be an excellent barroom
game, it wasn't quite as much fun sober, they started.

Joe told of the time when he bribed a cook onboard a small ship to
fry up some pork and onions. This aroma, combined with his
exaggerated swaying motions was enough to give his father a
rather nasty case of sea-sickness.

Maggie explained how she and Don once paid back a couple who
had the nasty habit of dropping by their house without warning,
but with their three children (at dinner time, natch). She described
a time when the two of them paid an unannounced visit to the other
couple on afternoon when they were, err, coupling.

PAD mentioned a recent charity auction where he engaged in a
bidding war with someone over Gene Hackman's hat from
"Unforgiven." Peter ran the price of the hat up to $2K+ before
letteing the other fellow have it.

Julie Schwartz was embarassed to recount his time as a petty
thief. It seems that he and Mort Weisinger had an aborted
attempt to steal Thesauri from the NYC Public library. Mort
got away with his, but Julie was caught red-handed.

Neil described how he killed a Physics teacher with kindness. I
didn't think it was particularly mean, but Harlan got a laugh
out of it.

Harlan told two stories: One from his time in the Rangers. After
getting on the wrong side of his DI (by mocking the seargant
while he was in the company of a not-so-pleasant working
girl), we has forced to wax the floor of his seargant's room.
The DI returned drunk to the barracks and ended up slipping on
the floor and breaking his back in three places.

The second story involved scaring a friend by hanging a life-
sized picture of an asp over his sleeping body. The man in
question has a violent fear of snakes.

All-in-all I appreciated the little snippets of honesty, but I would
have appreciated them more if they weren't presented in such
a mean-spirited subject. Luckily, everyone was pretty nice about
the whole thing.

6 pm: The racers gather for dinner. We make plans to drive to Mr.
Beef. Most of us get to the place we have agreed on, despite
it being called "Mr. Rib 'n' Beef." Glenn and five others (including
myself) go to "Mr. Beef", a completely different place. The six of
us learn that "Mr. Rib 'n' Beef" used to be called "Mr. Beef"
when it was owned by the uncle of someone who worked at "Mr.
Beef."

Despite this confusion, the six of us at "Mr. Beef" enjoy a garlic,
sausage and mushroom pie, as well as conversation about
con experiences, women in comics, and the marketplace. After
the tomato pie and a pitcher of beer, we head back to the
Convention Center to regroup with anyone else going to
see the Shadow.

8:35 pm: Back at the con, we run into two other racers, but
both have decided to see the Scott Shaw! and PAD Saturday
night funnies. We get a great map to the theatre and take off.

9 pm: At the movie theatre, we meet up with about ten other
racers who want to know what happened to us (Glenn, Dave,
and myself). We tell them a sordid tale of Bengali teenagers and
they leave the subject alone.

9:30-11ish: I enjoy the Shadow, even if it wasn't moody enough
for me. My impression is no doubt shaped by the fact that I sat
next to an extremely pleasant young women. Despite Iain
Bertram's very loud "you might get lucky" remark,  the young
lady and I managed to exchange some foot rubbing and finger
stroking.

Alas, this singular moment of carefree pleasure was destroyed
by the demands of our fellow movie-goers. She was torn away
by the companionship of her friends, while I found myself drawn
back to the Rosemont Con Center. Having exchanged a paucity
of words, we were each left with the single golden thread
spun by this magical moment as our only reminder that the
tapestry of our lives touched for this brief instant.

11:40 Glenn, Dave and I find ourselves at the O'Hare parking
garage. We think we see Greg Morrow's car taxiing down a
runway.

11:52 pm: We discover that the White Hen Pantry does not sell
beer. Using our natural skills as conversationalists, we learn
the location of another White Hen that does sell beer.

11:58 pm: At the second White Hen, we purchase a case of
MGD (no Old Milwaukee in sight!) and a lighter.

12:05 am: Somehow we have broken al the laws of God and
man and get back to the con before Kurt Busiek and Scott
McCloud's presentation. (Thank you PAD!) Kurt and Scott
show their first collaborative effort, "The Battle of Lexington."

This is the twisted tale of how ten Marvel heroes came to
Massachusettes to destroy their High School. This was
an impressive piece of work, especially considering McCloud's
attempts at layouts.

There are a variety of comic creators in the audience, but most
of them bugger off before 2:30, the time the show ends.

2:45 am: I spend some time sneaking around the convention
center. I find all sorts of things, but I was unable to come up
with a "staff" T-shirt. Eventually Iain gets stuck under a wall,
and we are chased away by rent-a-cops.

3 am: I am starving, so I spend some time sneaking around
the Sofitel looking for food. I find barrels of mints and bouquets
of flowers, but no food. My foray into the kitchen is interrupted
by some staff. I manage to escape up to the 7th floor where
the lot of us end up ordering room service.

5 am: After long discussions, some food, some beer, and a
little Australian whiskey, we break for the night. Stumbling
back to my room, I realize that the sun has already come up,
and I will be handicapped in my attempt to wake up in time
for the Sunday events.

As I prepare for sleep, I see what looks like fins protruding
from under the covers of my roommate's beds, and a shape
reminiscent of the Darkseid hovering in the corner. More on
that in the Sunday update....

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End of COMICS-L Digest - 6 Jul 1994 - Special issue
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